[vdr] Re: ON TOPIC:Re: Re: new features: RPM

[Onno <onnok@web.de>]

Steffen Barszus schrieb:
> Am Sonntag, 8. Juni 2003 13:04 schrieb Onno:
>
> > [...] (some talk about english for runaways)
>
> > For the RPM way:
> > don't try, it will fail, not for the sake of rpm itself, but the various
> > legal issues:
> > the following plugins/addons/extra tools can't be distributed binary:
>
> don't agree here mostly
well then try an publish the result with your email :-)

> > dvd (unless only usable for promo/homemade/dd dvd's)
uuups to: i meant non-dd dvd's

> Isn't it linked with a library ? Its the question if libdvdnav uses dvdcss, 
> nothing the plugin have to care about as far as i understood. 
well, but what's a useless plugin worth ? nothing, actually this would 
break the whole vdr-rpm, since vdr won't start if a plugin does not 
start, and that's what the plugin will do if the lib is not there,
and what for an rpm, if i have to _manually_ install something else,
that would make the whole rpm totally pointless, it would just save time 
for people who already know what to do ...

> > mp3 (unless you leave out mp3)
>
> thats not a problem in all countries. There are ways for all distros to get 
NO ! most new distros don't have mp3 at all !
> such stuff. Isn't libsndfile what takes care of mp3 decoding ? 
hmm that sounds even less general than the dvd problem, you would need a 
lawyer for deciding which lib to include for which plugin on a per 
country base .....

> > anything with ac3 which alters any bit in the stream
> > mplayer (they do it, but no mayor distributor[mp3,ac3,asf,..])
>
> again there are ways for it. 
but none i would pack into an rpm, and no one i know would do.

> > anything generating mpeg2 (mpeg2encode,mpeg2enc,tosvcd,...)
>
> tosvcd is in contrib-cooker (Mandrake)
jep, but not in all other distros, and what's an rpm for a special 
version (a test and development version b.t.w.) of one distro worth..

> > .....
> >
> >
> > some of these issues are only theoretical (no one _will_ sue you)
> > but if you are successful some one will come and bother you....
> >
> > And in conjunction with all the needed software this rpm
> > would have to be an source rpm, since too many compiler/glibc
> > environments are around in user land, and the targeted audience
> > can hardly update their gcc/glibc just to install an rpm :-)
>??
as you see from our discussion, you cant make an rpm which relies on 
15-50 lib's, you don't provide, no new bee will have any benefit from
that, and that was the original topic: make vdr for dummies as an rpm.


> > the download size (including the needed libs) would easily be 100mb+
> > and the packager would have to make some decisions, the user would have
> > to live with (some plugins/patches cant be combined)
>
> I guess something that people can live with. 
that was my fist idea:
give me root access to your linux (which must be on the internet)
and i will have a script to install my vdr to your system, not more, not 
less but my running installation.
around 8 people already use my vdr, even the universal remote is always 
the same (tv code 087) this works for me and the others, from time to 
time and depending on what the others use/want i update my system and 
respectively their systems, im just packing tars for a friend of mine to 
do so, update from vdr 1.1.23 to 1.1.29-autopid :-) (and he already 
prepares the b.b.q. for me *g*.

problems are: only redhat based, non NPTL systems, from rh7.0 to 
mandrake9.0  are supported.
and the lib's are 90MB (packed) the rest (vdr,driver,conf,scripts,..) is
around 30MB, and always one will have to make quite some customization
(local lan for vdradmin+vdrsp,how many hard disks, where to save 
converted svcd/divx, can mplayer transcode in real-time for full screen 
divx or must mplayer.sh be adopted, does he want to use X or not ,where 
to save the screenshots, where is his mp3 archive, where are his jpg's,...)
so most of my work done (around 30 scripts, quite some patching) is non 
public, since just making one script public can be a full (spare)time 
job, see mplayer.sh from juri haberland, he is very busy with that...

i prefer having my scripts for me and doing my friends a favor in 
adopting them to their needs, instead of preventing strangers from 
making stupid errors using my scripts...
yet i help people on vdrportal.de in making their own scripts [image 
plugin via mplayer.sh, runvdr in inittab, using mencoder to convert,...]
when ever i can give some useful advise.
(helfe zu helfen anstatt lösungen zu servieren)

> > so one could make a vdr rpm, but you need some sort of team for it....
>
> Its more a question to custum scripts and let vdr fit in an environment. You 
> can't use the normal structure. You need to add the dvb-drivers to the 
> kernel, you need to load the driver from there and not with make insmod, you 
no why, i never have anything from vdr in my "usual" linux places:
everything (driver,vdr,autopid-patched-vdr,vdradmin,mplayer,libs,...)
resides in /Vdr11 and only libs and external tools get installed in the 
system (make install), but no vdr, no config file, no driver is
in /usr/* or /etc/*.

so to install my vdr somewhere else i pack /Vdr11 and take it to the 
other box, decompress it , do a lot of "./configure && make && make 
install" then walk trough /Vdr11/conf/* and adopt settings and then add 
this to /etc/inittab:
vdr11:35:respawn:/Vdr11/conf/sbin/runvdr 1>/dev/null 2>/dev/null

> need a runlevlescript, alter the location for plugins, config-files .... So 
> its a bit of work, but sure not impossible. Now there 1.2.0 is out I'm sure 
yes, but nothing what would work right out of the box, since all the 
lib's  for all different distros/compile enviroments/runtime enviroments 
would be the mayor task (i still fail to get teletext working due to 
ffmpeg dependency, i tried really a lot lot lot lot ...), vdr itself is 
only 380kb in source :-)

> there will come RPMs up. I thought several times about it, there are some 
> here who have done it (for SuSE if i remember right) and I know that it will 
suse rpm was a big mistake, everyone who had it (and wasn't a pro) had 
to become a pro to get it working (lots of messages on vdrportal.de)

> be packaged for mandrake in the next time (for Cooker/9.2).
will make trouble also, they cant afford to put so much work into it.
but i personally use mandrake 9.0 and it is very good prepared, only few 
lib's had to be compiled, most where available as an rpm 
(freshrpms.net), but that's just to make clear that i like the mandrake 
way :
solid redhat + user-wishes=most generally usable gnu/linux system i know
(i.e. system follows user and not vice versa)

> It is for sure nothing that Klaus should care about, it has to be the work of 
> deb/rpm-maintainer and not of the vdr development team. (Klaus & plugin 
> developer). So it is valid that someone want to have a rpm, but it is not 
> right to ask Klaus for it. 
yes totally ACK !!!!!!

> Steffen
Regards Onno



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