[linux-dvb] [Em28xx] MPL-licensed V4L kernel modules (em2880)

Julian tempura at internode.on.net
Wed Jul 11 19:49:30 CEST 2007

Since this disscussion is public...
I'm going to put in my 2 cents.

If you actually read his posts - Like alot of end users are. Its the flames 
and personal attacks that are coming from the group mentality here (im sure 
theres a wiki that can explain that too)

So if we are talking about changes to the core and how v4l and dvb devices 
will work under linux in the future. He/they with the best solution will win 
via non-bias peer review and hopefully *beyond* the linuxtv project. So if 
Markus persists enough (he seems the only one consistently reworking what he 
has already done - but everyone seems to skim past that in his posts...) he 
will succeed.

I admire anyone that makes an effort against the status quo that fails to move 
anywhere really, and spends more effect resisting any kind of change than 
actually doing anything or offering an alternative.

Just because he is outnumbered with support here means absolutely nothing.
May the best code win.

>Your attempts to force the merge with flames and ultimatums
>(yes, plural) failed. Surprise, surprise...

how soft do people get with their drivers that they see a patch submission - 
as a flame? great fear patch bomb? it another year or so you might find that 
no patch will save you at all..no..its called a re-write then.
The more you put it off, the worse its going to get. 

Time will tell.
Trial and error is what its all about. remember .
So Just try it.

On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, Markus Rechberger wrote:
> On 7/11/07, Johannes Stezenbach <js at linuxtv.org> wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 11, 2007 at 05:18:35PM +0200, Markus Rechberger wrote:
> > > Remember all that code could have been in the kernel for around 1 year
> > > without breaking any device if these few core people (and there are
> > > really only very few ones <5) wouldn't have tried to hit it down.
> >
> > This "the bad linuxtv guys blocked my drivers for years"
> > allegation is unsubstancial as I tried to show in
> > http://www.linuxtv.org/pipermail/linux-dvb/2007-June/018853.html
> "A few people offered to help you" is the same as:
> A few people (especially the ones which are mentioned later) partly
> don't have a good overview about everything, and/or neither do they
> care about several requirements which are needed to get something work
> properly.
> And these cool people would just work on the core and tell me that I
> have to redo the code by myself and put all the work back to me just
> because they're incapable of working together at all ... and hey we
> had exactly the same situation 1 year ago and the only one who
> seriously tried to get forward was Mauro. A few people like to hide
> themself between their great DVB Code and try to play the masters here
> which is not acceptable.
> How comes that Manu tells me that he won't ask Mauro that he should
> push any of his code? Great community.
> > IMHO it is your inability to make compromises and work with
> > the community which blocked the merge. Issues don't just
> > magically resolve all by themselves if you just wait long enough.
> > Your attempts to force the merge with flames and ultimatums
> > (yes, plural) failed. Surprise, surprise...
> >
> > > I'm sure the project would go on way faster if everyone who has never
> > > investigated the dvb core project and who has no experience with that
> > > piece of code (and writing a dvb driver doesn't shed much light about
> > > the dvb framework) would just stay out of everything.
> >
> > You think you're the only competent programmer, and everyone
> > who dares to have different opinions just gets in the
> > way and holds you up? Check this out:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder#Diagnostic
> >_criteria
> For example you (first trying to help, afterwards doing nothing),
> * Manu Abraham (who has his project split from the maintree for a very
> long time too),
> * Marcel Siegert (who listens to other people's opinion and didn't
> even spend a minute on thinking by himself how to find a solution)
> * Oliver Endris, did some tests and afterwards denied the merge
> because he found a bug which got resolved right after he reported it.
> There were a few options, freeze the development of v4l-dvb merge in
> that code and fix whatever someone thinks he has to fix; there are
> many requirements covered within that code and all you guys did is to
> ignore it and nothing else.. Manu came up with something and didn't
> even talk to me about it if it would be ok with the work I've done and
> guess what he didn't even cover all the requirements which are already
> solved.
> Now, all the other developers are far away from such a misbehaviour.
> > > It's now about 14.000 lines of code, around 7000 inkernel lines, and I
> > > haven't received _any_ participation request of any developer and all
> > > you get if you ask people to join the project is that they are busy
> > > with their work (which is ok) but then don't try to manipulate someone
> > > else's work in the end.
> > > Nothing is getting better here if linuxtv.org people don't work
> > > together.
> >
> > If I look at hg or git logs I get the impression that the
> > community still works.
> as long as they don't cross the mind of people which are mentioned
> right above. But as you wrote earlier "guess what the issues are still
> unsovled".
> -Markus
> > > Companies will for sure not like to rely on such a mess where finally
> > > a few wannabes try to play the smart guys and are responsible that
> > > support for alot devices won't get into the kernel.
> >
> > ...
> >
> >
> > Johannes

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