[linux-dvb] why opensource will fail

Tim Lucas lucastim at gmail.com
Tue Sep 16 00:15:57 CEST 2008

> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 16:31:16 -0400
> From: Steven Toth <stoth at linuxtv.org>
> Subject: Re: [linux-dvb] why opensource will fail
> To: Paul Chubb <paulc at singlespoon.org.au>
> Cc: linux dvb <linux-dvb at linuxtv.org>
> Message-ID: <48CC2314.4090800 at linuxtv.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> Paul Chubb wrote:
> > Hi,
> >      now that I have your attention:-{)=
> .... You've also had my attention in the past, if I recall I have you
> tips about not using cx_write, instead using cx_set/cx_clear.
> Your latest patch still doesn't have those changes btw. ;)
> >
> > I believe that this community has a real problem. There appears to be
> > little willingness to help and mentor newcomers. This will limit the
> > effectiveness of the community because it will hinder expansion of
> > people who are both willing and able to work on the code. Eventually
> > this issue  will lead to the community dying simply because you have
> > people leaving but few joining.
> I disagree with everything you've just said, but that's just my opinion.
> >
> > The card I was working on has been around for  a while now. There have
> > been three attempts so far to get it working with Linux. Two in this
> > community and one against the mcentral.de tree. Both attempts in this
> > community have failed not because of a lack of willingness of the people
> > involved to do the hard yards but because of the inability of the
> > community to mentor and help newcomers.
> Did I not try to help you? The one piece of initial feedback I gave you,
> you ignored. (see my opening statement).
> I'm always willing to help people, but they also have to demonstrate
> that they are applying themselves, doing basic research, asking specific
> questions ... rather than, here's my patch - and What's Wrong with it.
> >
> > The third attempt by a Czech programmer succeeded, however it is
> > dependent on the mcentral.de tree and the author appears to have made no
> > attempt to get the patch into the tree. The original instructions to
> > produce a driver set are in Czech. However instructions in english for
> > 2.6.22 are available - ubuntu gutsy. I will soon be putting up
> > instructions for 2.6.24 - hardy. They may even work  for later revisions
> > since the big issue was incompatible versioning.
> >
> > I understand from recent posts to this list that many in the community
> > are disturbed by the existence of mcentral.de. Well every person from
> > now on who wants to run the Leadtek Winfast DTV1800H will be using that
> > tree. Since the card is excellent value for what it is, there should be
> > lots of them. Not helping newcomers who are trying to add cards has led
> > and will lead to increased fragmentation.
> So port the mcentral.de details into the kernel, I doubt they'll be
> significantly different.... we're talking about adding support for an
> existing card, it's not a lot of engineering work.
> >
> > And before you say or think that we are all volunteers here, I am a
> > volunteer also. I have spent close to 3 weeks on this code and it is
> > very close to working. The biggest difference between working code in
> > the mcentral.de tree and the patch I was working on is the firmware that
> > is used.
> ... and your efforts are valuable.
> Markus (mcentral.de) is paid to work on Linux, just to be clear.
> Your last message on that thread said: "xc2028 2-0061: xc2028/3028
> firmware name not set!"
> You could of asked a second time before taking the opportunity to vent,
> and taking the community to task.
> Showing patience and perseverance is what most other newcomers demonstrate.
> >
> > Finally you might consider that if few developers are prepared to work
> > on the v4l-dvb tree, then much of the fun will disappear because those
> > few will have to do everything.
> Whether we have 3 people or 30, it's never enough.
> In my experience, people who join the list then vent all over it are
> rarely around long enough to make a difference. They often think they
> know more about the community than the community itself.
> On the other hand, the people who join and ask well thought out
> questions, describe their failures and working assumptions, then
> demonstrate a willingness to learn attract a mentor very quickly.
> ... just my opinion of course :)
> If you want to make progress with the leadtek card then another look at
> the feedback I gave you, then approach the group again with a more
> insightful email.
> Maybe someone will help you then.
> - Steve
I would like to respond to this because I have been sending messages to the
list asking for help, but after a couple initial suggestions, I have been
completely ignored.  I need to work with the cx23885 drivers with analog
support that Steve wrote, because they are the only ones around, but how am
I supposed to get them to work if the person who wrote them will not help
me.   I even reported progress, but I was still ignored.  In fact, I saw
other people get help with questions that were as silly as mine, but for
some reason I cannot get any help from Steve or anyone else on the list.  I
have said before that I am willing to do some of the work, but there is a
steep learning curve.
If I have done something against the rules or to deserve this treatment, I
would appreciate someone letting me know instead of just ignoring me.  Where
else can I go for help?

If anyone has any suggestions about what I can do, please see my latest
posts to the list about analog support for cx23885 cards.  Thank you.


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