[linux-dvb] [ANNOUNCE] DVB API improvements

Markus Rechberger mrechberger at gmail.com
Thu Sep 25 05:18:02 CEST 2008

On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 5:04 AM, hermann pitton <hermann-pitton at arcor.de> wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, den 25.09.2008, 04:49 +0200 schrieb Markus Rechberger:
>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 4:47 AM, Michael Krufky <mkrufky at linuxtv.org> wrote:
>> > On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 10:01 PM, Markus Rechberger
>> > <mrechberger at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 11:41 PM, VDR User <user.vdr at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 8:21 AM, Mauro Carvalho Chehab
>> >>> <mchehab at infradead.org> wrote:
>> >>>> The decision were already taken by the group.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It should be noticed also that the public announcement took some time to
>> >>>> be ready, since we all carefully reviewed it to reflect the understanding
>> >>>> that the group had.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Both API's work, and people needed to choose between one of the proposals.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Each one there had enough time to read and understand each proposal, since
>> >>>> the patches were available more than one week before the meeting, and
>> >>>> everybody were aware that the decision are scheduled to happen during LPC.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Each one voted based on their own technical analysis, on a meeting that
>> >>>> took about 2:30 hours, on the day after the presentations. People had
>> >>>> enough time there to discuss, explain their ideas with the help of a
>> >>>> whiteboard, decide and improve the proposal.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> S2API was choosen, since it was considered the better proposal for
>> >>>> everybody there. None of the presents voted for Multiproto.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Now that the decision were already taken, it is not time anymore to argue
>> >>>> in favor to any other proposals. We need to move ahead and finally add
>> >>>> support for DVB-S2 and the remaining missing digital TV's at kernel.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thank you and everyone else involved on adding support for the missing
>> >>>> standards.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Let's move to the next step: finally add API changes and drivers for
>> >>>> DVB-S2 and prepare support for the remaining missing standards.
>> >>>
>> >>> It's no secret to anyone that there has been foul play, and blatantly
>> >>> clear there is bias against Manu himself, and multiproto as a result,
>> >>> based on personal differences & past conflicts.  You can't possibly
>> >>> expect the dvb community to believe a fair & balanced meeting took
>> >>> place to discuss these proposals when half the people there already
>> >>> signed on for s2api, and the other half don't have the knowledge &
>> >>> experience with dvb to make well-informed decisions.  You can't
>> >>> possibly think people will believe any of you (who've openly admitted
>> >>> support for s2api) spent 2 seconds defending multiproto, or even
>> >>> assessing the proposal from an unbias technical standpoint.
>> >>>
>> >>> It's very convenient that you've completely ignored multiple requests
>> >>> for more in-depth details that actually prove your points have real
>> >>> technical merit and aren't just the result of some self-interest
>> >>> politics and b.s.  Yet, you had no problem writing paragraphs about
>> >>> how the decision has been made and everyone should just accept it.
>> >>> Sorry, people aren't going to just accept it because this whole thing
>> >>> has been tainted by misleading people, misrepresenting the truth, and
>> >>> sometimes flat out lying.
>> >>>
>> >>> Valuable members of the community have turned, and are turning away
>> >>> because of how poorly dvb has been maintained, and how self-serving
>> >>> some people act.  I'm thankful that more people are being exposed &
>> >>> becoming aware of what's been going on in hopes that at the very least
>> >>> some kind of steps will be taken to stop the misuse & abuse of power
>> >>> at the front of the dvb train.
>> >>>
>> >>> Again, if there is truth to your claims that s2api is the best
>> >>> technical solution, then convince us all by providing tangible proof
>> >>> rather then expecting everyone to take your word for it while ignoring
>> >>> our requests for such information.  You have an obligation to the
>> >>> community to justify your actions, and be held accountable for them.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> There hasn't been much positive feedback here! How about let's talk to split the
>> >> v4l and dvb development in order to not give Mauro the full authority
>> >> over the whole
>> >> 2 subsystems where he hardly anything contributed (to the second part).
>> >>
>> >> Don't see this as a flamewar, Andrew Morton and a few others are
>> >> following that discussion now.
>> >>
>> >> Mauro as for you try to justify your step technically, the only point
>> >> we've seen for now was from
>> >> Patrick Boettcher (which was a good one from his side) but also the
>> >> other involved people (within that
>> >> 8 people group in Portland should point out their opinion and
>> >> technical objections/reasons now).
>> >>
>> >> Officially it looks like you had 3 people supporting the Stevens
>> >> proposal and 5 people who didn't know about
>> >> the framework at all and explaining them that the DVB-S2 step is the
>> >> better one to go whereas you had
>> >> noone representing the multiproto path. Such a vote is highly doubtful then.
>> >>
>> >> Hans Hverkuil:
>> >> I saw you in IRC that you support that proposal please also state out
>> >> your opinion and/or ask your questions
>> >> what/why things have been done like they are done in the multiproto
>> >> tree and why you don't support it.
>> >>
>> >> It finally can really end up with a good solution either multiproto or
>> >> S2 but everyone should understand and not only
>> >> a few people.
>> >>
>> >> Markus
>> >
>> > Markus,
>> >
>> > After over two years, a decision has been made.  Up until now, many
>> > people have been unhappy.  Now less people can be unhappy.  An
>> > extension to the api has been merged, and now we can move forward.
>> >
>> > There have been enough debates on the mailing lists to date, and there
>> > is enough information available about each proposal and all of the
>> > details surrounding them.  We need not hash this out again here.
>> >
>> > Nobody wants to debate this any more -- a better use of our time is to
>> > start working on userspace applications for the new supported
>> > standards.  Please redirect your energy towards something creative.
>> >
>> > Make love, not war.
>> >
>> sure state out technical reasons and that's what it is about otherwise
>> a serious split should happen asap.
>> I personally invite you to be the first one here!
>> Markus
> Markus,
> you can't invite anybody, since you stay out of kernel by your own
> decision and because Manu did not let you in the way you came :)


I never decided to stay outside of the kernel and if only for serious reasons.
For every pro why my stuff should be in the kernel I can get some
people up to discuss why it should
not be in the kernel right now. The split off is independent of the
rest of the code and won't affect anything else
and just add support for alot new devices in the end. Follow the
Mailinglist for the em28xx driver and you might see.

If anyone wants to have the driver code from mcentral.de in the kernel
as it is (including knowing what the bad things are
currently) I'm open for an immediately merge. For sure this also
depends if Linus is open to merge it. BSD people were open
for a merge without that stupid "submit small patches comment"
immediately especially since it's only about a driver which runs
on its own.

The codebase doesn't affect any other driver nor any framework as it
is right now only the driver itself.

Also think about writing more than 20k lines of code. This won't
happen over night.


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