[linux-dvb] [ANNOUNCE] DVB API improvements End-user point of view

hermann pitton hermann-pitton at arcor.de
Fri Sep 26 01:37:12 CEST 2008

Am Donnerstag, den 25.09.2008, 23:00 +0200 schrieb Markus Rechberger:
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 10:40 PM, Michael Krufky <mkrufky at linuxtv.org> wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 4:18 PM, Jörg Knitter <joerg.knitter at gmx.de> wrote:
> >> VDR User wrote:
> >>> Another option would be to look at both proposals, take the best ideas
> >>> for each, and marry them into a new hybrid proposal so-to-speak.  By
> >>> that I don't mean something which must be built completely from the
> >>> ground up..  Most of the work has already been done.  I think that is
> >>> a workable solution that can be found somewhere in the middle.
> >>>
> >> Thinking about all the posts within the last days, I did not propose
> >> something as this as I don´t believe that certain persons are still
> >> willing to cooperate or change their point of view. To be more precise:
> >> I think it would be a wonder if Steven Toth and Manu Abraham worked
> >> together. ;)
> >>
> >> With kind regards
> >
> > For the record, Manu did a great job with Multiproto.  Steve worked
> > with the multiproto API and added driver support for his devices.
> > Steve depended on Multiproto in order for his devices to work.  Steve
> > asked Manu when he would merge into the master branch, and waited
> > patiently for months.  Manu wouldn't even merge Steve's drivers into
> > Manu's own multiproto tree.  After repeatedly asking him to merge with
> > no sign of progress, Steve was left in a tough spot and had to come up
> > with his own solution.
> >
> > There is a saying that goes often for Linux development... "release
> > early, release often" ..  I first heard this saying from Johannes.  If
> > you dont go by this way of thinking, ie:  hold on to code for two and
> > a half years without allowing a merge, there is no guarantee that
> > somebody else may come up with a better solution.
> >
> > There was no sign that Multiproto would _ever_ get merged.  All of us
> > have waited for two and a half years for this.  The FIRST pull request
> > from Manu only appeared after Steve posted his own API proposal.  Had
> > Manu requested merge but one day before that, it would have been
> > merged and that would have been the end of it.
> >
> > As it turns out, Steve's API is more flexible, and allows us to
> > support more features than Multiproto allows.  If Manu would have
> > allowed Multiproto to have been merged into the master branch, Steve
> > would never have designed this newer API.  Due to the superior design,
> > that was the chosen extension.  This is where we are left today.
> >
> > I hope that clears things up.
> >
> Julian put together a history (just because Michael keeps writing the same):
> http://lkml.org/lkml/2008/9/19/67
> Markus

I know we all should stop, but that is hard too ...

Julian seems to be not aware about all prays to Manu during the last
merge windows.

Manu, please, please, please ...

The v4l-dvb-maintainer at linuxtv.org list is still public.

Should Steve wait for ever?

The user point of course is one important thing, but previously the
application developers came. And I know they were all very unhappy,
except maybe vdr, who moved forward for multiproto already.

Who the hell is VDR User <user.vdr at gmail.com> ?
Klaus himself?

At least he knows nothing about Mauro's real work on video4linux.

To prepare the kernel sync and give the patchmonkey on Johannes' request
for dvb too, are only a very few percent of his work and the "thanks" he
had for this so far are it not worth at all ...

On all other major projects, where he is the maintainer, such absurd
stuff did never happen.

The dvb guys inside don't get their stuff together and do exclude each
other. At least Steve had no other choice than to come up with his own

What a bullshit to accuse Mauro of missing maintainer ship, all asked
him to stay out as far as possible to continue to play there own games! 

But they just load the daily dirt on him they preferably don't like to
care themselves for at all, including patch reviewing in many parts.

Also Mike did more integration work across the frameworks than anyone
else during the last year. That by the way.


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