This is the 'official' vdr-mailing-list-etiquette-reminder. Please take this as a serious advise. The VDR mailinglist is getting quite large and it shouldn't become a pain in the ass to follow. Take the time to read it, especially if you are new to mailinglists in general.
E-mail formatting =================
Mailing list email should fit the following criteria:
DO -- * Trim quoted material to the minimum needed to clarify what you're talking about. * Add a blank line _before_ and _after_ each quote for better readability. * Make sure you are attributing material to the correct person (i.e. make sure the "On 19/07/2002, Joe Bloggs said:" is correct) * Write your responses _after_ the quoted text, not before. If your mail client makes it difficult to do this, get a new one. * Make sure lines are wrapped at maximum 76 characters (to fit an 80 character wide screen), even if the text had been quotet several times. * Use ">" at start of line to mark quoted text. * Set your mail client to "english headers" to avoid subjects like: "AW: Antwort: Re: AW: AW: AW: Re: Some Topic allready trunkated" If you see one, don't just add another "Re:" but remove all "AW:" and other chained "Re:". * Use a descriptive subject! A message titled "A small wish" doesn't tell what it is about. Better use something like "should do xyz" or "crashes when doing xyz". * Always write one separate message per topic. some people (especially those who matter) might not read mixed-up and lengthy threads. * Start a new thread when posting a new subject. * Make emails as short as possible whilst keeping them comprehensible.
Don't ----- * Don't post in either HTML-only or in Text and HTML. If your mail client doesn't support this, change it. * Don't top post. * Don't give a one line answer having quoted the whole post. * Don't use a too long signature. * Don't reply where you should have started a new thread. * Don't break threads by sending a new mail, where you should have replied. * Don't test post. Send your test posts to "echo@fu-berlin.de" or similar reply machines. * Don't use lengthly disclaimers. If not possible, use a freemail account. * Don't quote disclaimers and other footers.
General Etiquette =================
This can really be summed up in one phrase - 'be polite'.
Allways use your 'Real Name' when posting to mailinglists or newsgroups.
If you think something is off-topic, don't reply to the list although you may want to send a short and *polite* note to the person privately telling them which list would be more appropriate; don't just say - "that is OT here".
Before asking a question, please Have a look at the mailing list archives at http://www.linuxtv.org/pipermail/vdr/
If someone flames or trolls the list, don't reply - it wastes everyones bandwidth and time.
Don't reply to spam which gets through to the list - just ignore it when it does.
Resources =========
* The ultimate guide to most matters to do with email etiquette is RFC-2822 which can be found at:
ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2822.txt
* A german site set up by some usenet-people, who take it even more serious with netiquette.
I demand that Clemens Kirchgatterer may or may not have written...
This is the 'official' vdr-mailing-list-etiquette-reminder. Please take this as a serious advise. [...]
s/advise/advice/ - noun, not verb :-)
E-mail formatting
Mailing list email should fit the following criteria:
DO
- Trim quoted material to the minimum needed to clarify what you're talking about.
- Add a blank line _before_ and _after_ each quote for better readability.
Blank lines between each bullet point may help...
[snip]
- Start a new thread when posting a new subject.
I think that this needs a little clarification - something like "make sure that you're not responding to an existing posting" and that just changing the subject header and deleting any quoted text is NOT enough because the message's headers will still contain references to other messages.
I also wonder whether it would be worth pairing related "do"s and "don't"s...
[snip]
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005, Darren Salt (DS) wrote:
DS> DS> I demand that Clemens Kirchgatterer may or may not have written... DS> DS> DS> > DO DS> > --
please replace -- by == or ---
I can't see if there is a trailing space, but pine interprets this particular -- as beginning of the signature.
Sergei
On Mon, Jun 13, 2005 at 09:43:11AM +0200, Sergei Haller wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005, Darren Salt (DS) wrote:
DS> DS> I demand that Clemens Kirchgatterer may or may not have written... DS> DS> DS> > DO DS> > --
please replace -- by == or ---
Please replace your "DS>" with "> " as mutt don't understand you are quoting...
Sergei Haller Sergei.Haller@math.uni-giessen.de wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005, Darren Salt (DS) wrote:
DS> DS> I demand that Clemens Kirchgatterer may or may not have written... DS> DS> DS> > DO DS> > --
please replace -- by == or ---
I can't see if there is a trailing space, but pine interprets this particular -- as beginning of the signature.
so pine is wrong here, because there is no trailing space, but for heaven's sake, i will change this for the next release, at least if you fix your quoting. ;-)
clemens
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Clemens Kirchgatterer () wrote:
Sergei Haller Sergei.Haller@math.uni-giessen.de wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005, Darren Salt (DS) wrote:
DS> DS> I demand that Clemens Kirchgatterer may or may not have written... DS> DS> DS> > DO DS> > --
please replace -- by == or ---
I can't see if there is a trailing space, but pine interprets this particular -- as beginning of the signature.
so pine is wrong here, because there is no trailing space, but for heaven's sake, i will change this for the next release, at least if you fix your quoting. ;-)
thanks. I'll try not to forget :)
c ya Sergei
clemens@1541.org(Clemens Kirchgatterer) 11.06.05 16:33
Once upon a time "Clemens Kirchgatterer " shaped the electrons to say...
This is the 'official' vdr-mailing-list-etiquette-reminder. Please take this as a serious advise. The VDR mailinglist is getting quite large and it shouldn't become a pain in the ass to follow. Take the time to read it, especially if you are new to mailinglists in general.
Maybe you can add some upcoming requirements?
E-mail formatting
Mailing list email should fit the following criteria:
DO
- Trim quoted material to the minimum needed to clarify what you're
talking about.
But don't trimm if there is nothing left to trimm only to have trimmed. Upto 1KB is usually required (and OK) to make the reader (and google!) able to see the "context".
An answer alone is nothing worth, because no search engine will find it.
* Pay attention not delete just the revelant parts and keep the neglectable. (Such brain dead "quoting" can often be seen.)
(That is a bit redundant, make it shorter)
- Add a blank line _before_ and _after_ each quote for better
readability.
Yes. Do the same in your text, please ;-)
- Write your responses _after_ the quoted text, not before. If your
mail client makes it difficult to do this, get a new one.
- Make sure lines are wrapped at maximum 76 characters (to fit an 80
character wide screen), even if the text had been quotet several times.
I would recommend 72 because that leaves enough space for some more quoting chars in a longer thread without reformatting. Too it's easier to read (64 would be better, but inefficient).
- Use ">" at start of line to mark quoted text.
Should read: * Use the correct nummers of ">" at start of line to mark quoted text.
- Use a descriptive subject! A message titled "A small wish"
doesn't tell what it is about. Better use something like "should do xyz" or "crashes when doing xyz".
* If the topic of the thread changed/degrades meanwhile, change the subject too! That means: Before you start to answer, have a look into the subject your are going to reply to! That makes it easier for others to find the relevant infos! Use: New topic (was: old topic) On reply the mail client would stop the subject at the magic token "(was:"
- Always write one separate message per topic. some people (especially
those who matter) might not read mixed-up and lengthy threads.
* Use a mailer which supports message ID references "X-ref"
- Make emails as short as possible whilst keeping them comprehensible.
But don't strip down only to strip down!
* Mail lengthly diffs (upto 10KB(?)) only as attachments, not in the body, because it would be easily become corrupted as "plain text". For longer diffs ask for a an ftp-server for upload.
* mail the orignal error message (literally) not you interpretation of it. If there is absoletely no way to get the original, do "strings" and see if you find a similar string. Note that this was just a reconstruction. That makes it easier for others to find the string and the solution...
* Reply, when ever possible, to the list, not just to the asker.
- Don't give a one line answer having quoted the whole post.
Is that true for all writes? ;-)
- Don't use a too long signature.
What is "long"? (approx. 4 lines are accepted) Don't let user alone with inexact figures.
- Don't break threads by sending a new mail, where you should have
replied.
See: use a reader capable for X-ref!
* Don't sign your mail (it is usually not securiry relevant) and worse don't add your full 5KB (!) public key as attachment. That's waste of bandwidth.
* Don't do "group reply", reply only to the list, because nobody could have posted to the list without beeing succripted to it first.
Rainer
Sergei.Haller@math.uni-giessen.de(Sergei Haller) 13.06.05 09:43
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005, Darren Salt (DS) wrote:
DS>> DS>> I demand that Clemens Kirchgatterer may or may not have written... DS>> DS>> DS>>> DO DS>>> --
please replace -- by == or ---
I can't see if there is a trailing space, but pine interprets this particular -- as beginning of the signature.
a) In every mailclient one can configure if signatures are shown or not So it's up to iteh user, not the mailer, because: b) There is not trailng " " so your pine is -obviously- broken! It's open source, so it should be easy to fix ;-> c) it would be nice if the source forge list server would use "-- " too... ;-)
Rainer
I demand that Rainer Zocholl may or may not have written...
Sergei.Haller@math.uni-giessen.de(Sergei Haller) 13.06.05 09:43
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005, Darren Salt (DS) wrote:
I demand that Clemens Kirchgatterer may or may not have written...
DO
please replace -- by == or ---
I can't see if there is a trailing space, but pine interprets this particular -- as beginning of the signature.
a) In every mail client one can configure if signatures are shown or not
s/every mail client/some mail clients,/
So it's up to the user, not the mailer, because: b) There is not trailng " " so your pine is -obviously- broken! It's open source, so it should be easy to fix ;->
I suspect that it's making allowance for certain broken M$ mail clients.
c) it would be nice if the sourceforge list server would use "-- " too... ;-)
Then file a bug.
(Some mail clients look for a line containing only "--" if no line containing "-- " was found in the message. Ideally, they wouldn't, but there's that M$ ma(i)lware...)
-- If this line shows up as signature, then Pine really is being wooden.
-
Clemens Kirchgatterer -
Darren Salt -
Grégoire Favre -
Rainer Zocholl -
Sergei Haller