Hi,
the TV channel logo graphics collection installed on my vdr has about 650 logos, many of them out of date, some of them in bad shape.
So it might be a good idea to update the collection.
Asking my lawyer confirmed that distributing TV channel logo graphics for open source software is problematic: You shouldn't do this unless you have written permission by the logos' owners.
Much to my surprise, /if/ you ask them and explain the specific purpose, the logo owners /do/ grant permission to distribute their logo graphics for use in non-commercial open-source software.
So far, noone turned down the request and I have collected a critical mass of logos within a few days:
http://www.linuxtv.org/vdrwiki/index.php/Logo_Collection
I will continue to ask those German TV and radio stations in my channel.conf, but help for other countries would be welcome.
Please contact me before you ask your local stations, so that they don't get asked twice. (Oh, and don't bother asking pay TV stations that do not permit pvr use such as German Premiere.)
The strategy is to ask for vector graphics logos and for permission to use them in OSD and EPG non-commercial open-source applications. This will make the collection versatile enough to be used beyond vdr, e.g for mythtv etc.
However, vector graphics files means Illustrator, Freehand or EPS. What I need is SVG. For many of the files of the collection, Inkscape or pstoedit fail to open them.
It'd be nice if a user of illustrator or freehand could help. It shouldn't be more work than simple conversion of files to .svg or to clean .eps every now and then, so that I can edit those files in Inkscape later.
(Yes, I know that there are SVG logo files on Wikipedia. However, those logos were drawn and contributed by users and some of them are not true to the original logo.)
Thanks,
Hanno
Hi,
So far, noone turned down the request and I have collected a critical mass of logos within a few days:
Sigh. I got the first refusal. To my surprise by the non-commercial public German TV channel ZDF.
If anyone is having good relations to someone within ZDF, it'd be nice if he could help lobbying there.
Regards,
Hanno
On Wednesday 02 July 2008, Hanno Zulla wrote:
Hi,
So far, noone turned down the request and I have collected a critical mass of logos within a few days:
[...]
I applaud the effort, and IANAL, but with all due respect, are you certain that the license agreement draft says what you intend?
For example, the "non-commercial" word is problematic. GPL _allows_ commercial distribution, and removing that possiblity makes your license incompatible with the GPL (which I'm sure you know is VDR's and practically all its plugins' license). http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#NoMilitary
I suggest finalizing the license/copyright terms before asking logo copyright holders for permission in order to avoid having to ask them again if/when the license changes.
Hi,
I applaud the effort, and IANAL, but with all due respect, are you certain that the license agreement draft says what you intend?
Yes.
For example, the "non-commercial" word is problematic. GPL _allows_ commercial distribution, and removing that possiblity makes your license incompatible with the GPL (which I'm sure you know is VDR's and practically all its plugins' license). http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#NoMilitary
I do not intend to have this collection distributed commercially by third parties and I do not intend to reach GPL compatibility with the first batch of logos.
Making it available for non-free download is fine by me and better than the current, illegal logo collection many of us use.
Anyone wishing to sell software or hardware products using these logos, GPL-ed or not, should ask the logo owners for permission for their respective project. That's not different to the legal situation we already have.
Asking the logo owners upfront to give carte blanche for commercial distribution of their logos is far too much to ask for. These people are already weary to permit having their logo displayed in software for personal use, believe me.
We may ask for more permissions later, though. I have no problem doing the same round of requests in a year or two, when the collection is complete and when I can show logo owners that it has been a benefit to the community.
Regards,
Hanno
Hanno Zulla wrote:
The strategy is to ask for vector graphics logos and for permission to use them in OSD and EPG non-commercial open-source applications. This will make the collection versatile enough to be used beyond vdr, e.g for mythtv etc.
That 'non-commercial' restriction pretty much prevents plugins with such logos to be included in Linux distributions though. At least it makes the package non-free.
cu Ludwig
Hi,
That 'non-commercial' restriction pretty much prevents plugins with such logos to be included in Linux distributions though. At least it makes the package non-free.
That's fine by me.
A non-free collection with permission by the logo owners would be a major improvement over the current logo collection, which isn't just outdated, but also utterly illegal by any standard.
However, I experience the drag of discussing this with logo owners right now. The ZDF just declined and the BR (which is a reference client of xeatre.tv, to boot!) is also a tough one so far.
And if my collection turns out to be complete, I'll be co-responsible when someone abuses it. Oh, don't we all love legal matters?
Regards,
Hanno
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Hanno Zulla -
Ludwig Nussel -
Ville Skyttä