With VDR getting ready for HD-TV it seems that today the MPEG4 decoding can only be done on a high end processor or an external decoder card. Many people are still waiting for a FF DVB-S2 card but it doesn't look very promising at the moment.
So I was wondering if it would be possible to use the on board video decoder chips of the VIA EPIA boards like the VIA EPIA EX15000G http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainboards/motherboards.jsp?motherboard_id...
This board mounts a CX700M2 chipset which features MPEG2/4 hardware decoding. It has DVI and Y/Pb/Pr video output as well as analog and SPDIF audio (coaxial and optical). So that's everything we need, isn't it.
I know, currently the OpenChrome video driver doesn't support MPEG2/4 video decoding for the CX700M2 and there are probably other things missing from the software support side. But from what I see, this or a similar motherboard in combination with a budget DVB-S2 card have all the hardware features that are needed to have HD-TV. So we actually have the proper hardware platform *today* for a quite a low budget. So if all the efforts go into driver and application development for such a platform, there is no need to wait for FF DVB-S2 cards.
Or am I missing something here?
On Wednesday 06 Feb 2008, Ondrej Wisniewski wrote:
With VDR getting ready for HD-TV it seems that today the MPEG4 decoding can only be done on a high end processor or an external decoder card. Many people are still waiting for a FF DVB-S2 card but it doesn't look very promising at the moment.
So I was wondering if it would be possible to use the on board video decoder chips of the VIA EPIA boards like the VIA EPIA EX15000G http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainboards/motherboards.jsp?motherboa rd_id=450
This board mounts a CX700M2 chipset which features MPEG2/4 hardware decoding. It has DVI and Y/Pb/Pr video output as well as analog and SPDIF audio (coaxial and optical). So that's everything we need, isn't it.
I know, currently the OpenChrome video driver doesn't support MPEG2/4 video decoding for the CX700M2 and there are probably other things missing from the software support side. But from what I see, this or a similar motherboard in combination with a budget DVB-S2 card have all the hardware features that are needed to have HD-TV. So we actually have the proper hardware platform *today* for a quite a low budget. So if all the efforts go into driver and application development for such a platform, there is no need to wait for FF DVB-S2 cards.
Or am I missing something here?
I think the main problem here is Via not wanting to release information on their chipset to allow MPEG4 support to be built into OpenChrome or similar.
MEPG2 decoding works (at least on the older Via chipsets...) but I think this was mostly reverse-engineered!
I don't think MPEG4 decoding will be supported in this way for a very long time, unless Via have changed their attitudes. (Not really bothered looking into this because HD is years off in the UK where I am, unless you fork out lots to Sky!)
It is a shame to have such hardware and not be able to use it!!
Cheers,
Laz
Le mercredi 06 février 2008 à 09:58 +0000, Laz a écrit :
I don't think MPEG4 decoding will be supported in this way for a very long time, unless Via have changed their attitudes. (Not really bothered looking into this because HD is years off in the UK where I am, unless you fork out lots to Sky!)
I'm not so sure. I don't think it will be years - maybe one and a half.
My question is "is HD worth all the fuss" - most run of the mill folk on the street can't see the difference between DVD quality digital and HD. Especially in high speed action scenes on current sized screens. And who really wants to look at black spots on actresses noses in all that gory detail? Or fat on their backsides for that matter.
HD needs to be shown at sizes where the extra pixels are worth our while I don't have 3000€ to put into a screen.
Cheers
Tony
On Wednesday, 6. Februaryta 2008 13:40:36 Tony Grant wrote:
HD needs to be shown at sizes where the extra pixels are worth our while I don't have 3000€ to put into a screen.
But some of us do! ;-)
Le mercredi 06 février 2008 à 17:29 +0200, JJussi a écrit :
HD needs to be shown at sizes where the extra pixels are worth our while I don't have 3000€ to put into a screen.
But some of us do! ;-)
I would probably spend a lot more time - enough to justify the cost - in front of TV if I lived in the far north. But I don't. There is a cost/quality threshold in entertainement and HD is on the wrong side right now (Image quality AND content quality). DVB-S and/or DVD are plenty enough for us. And where I live going to the movies is cheap (the whole family of four for less than 20€) and we meet other people there too! And the cinema is about 250 meters from home...
For me HD is one of the least exciting technological progresses ever. Digital video is "good enough" for most needs. I wish more money was spent producing quality content - that is the weakest link right now.
What was really exciting was finding VDR and being able to watch/record/time shift UK TV from France with great enough image and sound quality - much much better than the analogical satellite we had before.
Cheers
Tony
On Feb 6, 2008 9:58 AM, Laz laz@club-burniston.co.uk wrote:
I don't think MPEG4 decoding will be supported in this way for a very long time, unless Via have changed their attitudes. (Not really bothered looking into this because HD is years off in the UK where I am, unless you fork out lots to Sky!)
Apologies for going slightly off topic, but errrm, no it isn't. Three of the four main broadcasters in the UK will be offering HD services this spring, for free, on the FreeSat platform. Currently you can get an excellent service from BBC HD for free and Channel 4 HD you can watch for the one off cost (£15) of a viewing card. C4 HD will also be going FTA in a month or two. I can currently watch and record both channels on my VDR box which is fantastic (check out Paul Mcartney at the Electric Proms in HD and DD5.1!)
Apparently ITV HD will start FTA in March / April. Additionally, Luxe HD is also FTA on Astra 2.
So, currently 4 HD channels that you can receive in the UK without forking out lots to Sky.
So I was wondering if it would be possible to use the on board video decoder chips of the VIA EPIA boards like the VIA EPIA EX15000G http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainboards/motherboards.jsp?motherboa rd_id=450
This board mounts a CX700M2 chipset which features MPEG2/4 hardware decoding. It has DVI and Y/Pb/Pr video output as well as analog and SPDIF audio (coaxial and optical). So that's everything we need, isn't it.
for hdtv - no. I don't see the h.264 hardware decoding. mpeg4 is not h.264.
Igor
So I was wondering if it would be possible to use the on board video decoder chips of the VIA EPIA boards like the VIA EPIA EX15000G http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainboards/motherboards.jsp?motherboa rd_id=450
This board mounts a CX700M2 chipset which features MPEG2/4 hardware decoding. It has DVI and Y/Pb/Pr video output as well as analog and SPDIF audio (coaxial and optical). So that's everything we need, isn't it.
for hdtv - no. I don't see the h.264 hardware decoding. mpeg4 is not h.264.
Igor
En/na Igor ha escrit:
So I was wondering if it would be possible to use the on board video decoder chips of the VIA EPIA boards like the VIA EPIA EX15000G http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainboards/motherboards.jsp?motherboa rd_id=450
This board mounts a CX700M2 chipset which features MPEG2/4 hardware decoding. It has DVI and Y/Pb/Pr video output as well as analog and SPDIF audio (coaxial and optical). So that's everything we need, isn't it.
for hdtv - no. I don't see the h.264 hardware decoding. mpeg4 is not h.264.
Maybe this thing can be hacked to run vdr or to be used as a front-end: http://www.popcornhour.com/
Supposedly it runs Linux, but you know these companies (like, e.g., broadcom) that only take but never give back....
Bye
On 06/02/2008, Luca Olivetti luca@ventoso.org wrote:
for hdtv - no. I don't see the h.264 hardware decoding. mpeg4 is not h.264.
Maybe this thing can be hacked to run vdr or to be used as a front-end: http://www.popcornhour.com/
The popcornhour device (network media tank) is not linux :(
The interface looks like Vista's media center edition:
Windows Vista and WMP 11 - Seamless support for Windows Vista and Windows XP Media Player 11 built-in media server
WMS HTTP / RTSP Streaming Technology Microsoft / Cisco Multicast Streaming Technology ISMAv1 RTSP Streaming Technology Multicast Streaming Technology H.264 / WMV9 HD Streaming and MPEG4 SD format WMV9 High / Standard Definition Streaming with Janus DRM (silent type) capability
I have not heard of a linux solution that supports DRM.
It does have the Sigma SMP8635, which supports the MPEG-4 Part 10, 1080p or High Profile (HiP) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264#Profiles.
Which is good for when HD-DVD or Blu-Ray becomes affordable. Finding a device with this chip that runs linux and that is open is becoming harder as Microsoft appears to corner the market :(
HD-TV dvb-s/dvb-s2 will never reach that profile, so I suspect that in buying a FF-card will only go up to 1080i or Main Profile (MP) and be useless for watching a HD content from a compact disc that is 1080p through vdr :( Unless there is a dxr3 like solution as an add-on pci/pci-express card.
Theunis
I apologies for my mistake, it appears very secretively to run linux, no where clearly stated. There is no source supplied. oh well, aren't we used to that?
On 07/02/2008, Theunis Potgieter theunis.potgieter@gmail.com wrote:
On 06/02/2008, Luca Olivetti luca@ventoso.org wrote:
for hdtv - no. I don't see the h.264 hardware decoding. mpeg4 is not h.264.
Maybe this thing can be hacked to run vdr or to be used as a front-end: http://www.popcornhour.com/
The popcornhour device (network media tank) is not linux :(
The interface looks like Vista's media center edition:
Windows Vista and WMP 11 - Seamless support for Windows Vista and Windows XP Media Player 11 built-in media server
WMS HTTP / RTSP Streaming Technology Microsoft / Cisco Multicast Streaming Technology ISMAv1 RTSP Streaming Technology Multicast Streaming Technology H.264 / WMV9 HD Streaming and MPEG4 SD format WMV9 High / Standard Definition Streaming with Janus DRM (silenttype) capability
I have not heard of a linux solution that supports DRM.
It does have the Sigma SMP8635, which supports the MPEG-4 Part 10, 1080p or High Profile (HiP) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264#Profiles.
Which is good for when HD-DVD or Blu-Ray becomes affordable. Finding a device with this chip that runs linux and that is open is becoming harder as Microsoft appears to corner the market :(
HD-TV dvb-s/dvb-s2 will never reach that profile, so I suspect that in buying a FF-card will only go up to 1080i or Main Profile (MP) and be useless for watching a HD content from a compact disc that is 1080p through vdr :( Unless there is a dxr3 like solution as an add-on pci/pci-express card.
Theunis
Hi!
Maybe the best solution is to use a hardware STB for IPTV? It takes all soft and stream from ethernet, it allows to control via web based portal. Video stream for this devices is near the same as SAT stream - it needs PAT for one program only, PAT rewriting is easy.
Typical STB costs are like FF card - 100-200e, got DHMI, hardware HDTV etc. And it eats about 20-40W.
I'm not sure about OSD...
What do you think about this solution?
Boguslaw Juza
El Thu, 7 Feb 2008 06:44:41 +0200 "Theunis Potgieter" theunis.potgieter@gmail.com escribió:
On 06/02/2008, Luca Olivetti luca@ventoso.org wrote:
for hdtv - no. I don't see the h.264 hardware decoding. mpeg4 is not h.264.
Maybe this thing can be hacked to run vdr or to be used as a front-end: http://www.popcornhour.com/
The popcornhour device (network media tank) is not linux :(
I read somewhere that it runs Linux, maybe they were wrong but I doubt you can pack that kind of hardware and embed windows at that price point. Of course the fact that runs linux (if it does) doesn't mean it's open: as I already said these companies (sigma, broadcom) only take from linux to reduce their development cost but never give back, not even a single line of specifications for their hardware.
Bye
http://lundman.net/wiki/index.php/NetworkedMediaTank
Would be nice if someone could completely open up the device.
On 07/02/2008, Luca Olivetti luca@ventoso.org wrote:
El Thu, 7 Feb 2008 06:44:41 +0200 "Theunis Potgieter" theunis.potgieter@gmail.com escribió:
On 06/02/2008, Luca Olivetti luca@ventoso.org wrote:
for hdtv - no. I don't see the h.264 hardware decoding. mpeg4 is not h.264.
Maybe this thing can be hacked to run vdr or to be used as a front-end: http://www.popcornhour.com/
The popcornhour device (network media tank) is not linux :(
I read somewhere that it runs Linux, maybe they were wrong but I doubt you can pack that kind of hardware and embed windows at that price point. Of course the fact that runs linux (if it does) doesn't mean it's open: as I already said these companies (sigma, broadcom) only take from linux to reduce their development cost but never give back, not even a single line of specifications for their hardware.
Bye
Luca
vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
I demand that Ondrej Wisniewski may or may not have written...
With VDR getting ready for HD-TV it seems that today the MPEG4 decoding can only be done on a high end processor or an external decoder card.
MPEG-4 (or, more specifically, H.264) != HDTV. Sooner or later, it'll be used for 576p or 576i, if it's not being used for that already somewhere.
[snip]
Darren Salt wrote:
I demand that Ondrej Wisniewski may or may not have written...
With VDR getting ready for HD-TV it seems that today the MPEG4 decoding can only be done on a high end processor or an external decoder card.
MPEG-4 (or, more specifically, H.264) != HDTV. Sooner or later, it'll be used for 576p or 576i, if it's not being used for that already somewhere.
According to wikipedia, it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H264#Applications
Ondrej Wisniewski a écrit :
With VDR getting ready for HD-TV it seems that today the MPEG4 decoding can only be done on a high end processor or an external decoder card. Many people are still waiting for a FF DVB-S2 card but it doesn't look very promising at the moment.
So I was wondering if it would be possible to use the on board video decoder chips of the VIA EPIA boards like the VIA EPIA EX15000G http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainboards/motherboards.jsp?motherboard_id...
This board mounts a CX700M2 chipset which features MPEG2/4 hardware decoding. It has DVI and Y/Pb/Pr video output as well as analog and SPDIF audio (coaxial and optical). So that's everything we need, isn't it.
I know, currently the OpenChrome video driver doesn't support MPEG2/4 video decoding for the CX700M2 and there are probably other things missing from the software support side. But from what I see, this or a similar motherboard in combination with a budget DVB-S2 card have all the hardware features that are needed to have HD-TV. So we actually have the proper hardware platform *today* for a quite a low budget. So if all the efforts go into driver and application development for such a platform, there is no need to wait for FF DVB-S2 cards.
Or am I missing something here?
I'd also like to read some answers to that specific question. Is the EPIA EX the kind of hardware that could some day properly render 1920x1080 broadcasts ?
Ondrej Wisniewski wrote:
This board mounts a CX700M2 chipset which features MPEG2/4 hardware decoding. It has DVI and Y/Pb/Pr video output as well as analog and SPDIF audio (coaxial and optical). So that's everything we need, isn't it.
Well, looks like the people who pointed out that this chip doesn't decode h.264 are right. Neither could I find any other decoder chip on the VIA web pages that would do that. So this is actually a "no go" for the EPIA boards for decoding HD-TV video. That means I was wrong and we really *don't* have the needed hardware *today*, not to mention Linux support.
Remains to be seen if VIA (or some other manufacturer) comes up with a small, low power consumption MB with h.264 hw decoding or if we see a FF DVB-S2 card before that. In the meantime there is no hurry, I'm happy with the current VDR :-)
Ondrej
Ondrej Wisniewski wrote:
Remains to be seen if VIA (or some other manufacturer) comes up with a small, low power consumption MB with h.264 hw decoding or if we see a FF DVB-S2 card before that. In the meantime there is no hurry, I'm happy with the current VDR :-)
Intel should be doing that this year with their to be released G45 chipset with X4500HD integrated graphics and since Intel has been quite nice with their attitude towards Linux and open source, it could even be possible to have a h.264 decoding motherboard by the end of this year.
-Petri
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Anssi Hannula -
Boguslaw Juza -
Darren Salt -
Igor -
Jean-Claude Repetto -
JJussi -
Laz -
Luca Olivetti -
Morfsta -
Nicolas Huillard -
Ondrej Wisniewski -
Petri Helin -
Theunis Potgieter -
Tony Grant