On Fri, 1 Apr 2011, VDR User wrote:
Ignoring remotes that don't follow the RGYB scheme doesn't make them any less 'tv oriented' or go away. I can't imagine it's much of a leap to make the colored button position customizable and is probably something that's better to have then not. What good argument against allowing the user to customize the layout according to their actual remote button layout could there be? None that I can think of. I'd guess Klaus will consider any patches submitted to him which don't cause problems. Regardless, users always have the option to patch the feature in if it doesn't become a part of VDR's core.
The RGYB color enumeration is defined in the video teletext standard and every TV/STB set implementing the teletext feature DOES use the mentioned color button order. I guess the teletext is used mainly in Europe, so there might be different conventions elsewhere, but the VDR is a STB for DVB standard that documents the teletext too.
IMO, you really should switch the OSD button colors in skin plugins instead of patching the core VDR. There will be some glitches with learning the remotes, but these can be fixed with some extra documentation (Press 'Red/leftmost color' button). These remotes with "wrong" color button orders are really a small minority here mainly targeted to some odd mediacenters or PS3 - at least here in the northern Europe.
BR, -- rofa
On 02.04.2011 11:33, Rolf Ahrenberg wrote:
On Fri, 1 Apr 2011, VDR User wrote:
Ignoring remotes that don't follow the RGYB scheme doesn't make them any less 'tv oriented' or go away. I can't imagine it's much of a leap to make the colored button position customizable and is probably something that's better to have then not. What good argument against allowing the user to customize the layout according to their actual remote button layout could there be? None that I can think of. I'd guess Klaus will consider any patches submitted to him which don't cause problems. Regardless, users always have the option to patch the feature in if it doesn't become a part of VDR's core.
The RGYB color enumeration is defined in the video teletext standard and every TV/STB set implementing the teletext feature DOES use the mentioned color button order. I guess the teletext is used mainly in Europe, so there might be different conventions elsewhere, but the VDR is a STB for DVB standard that documents the teletext too.
IMO, you really should switch the OSD button colors in skin plugins instead of patching the core VDR. There will be some glitches with learning the remotes, but these can be fixed with some extra documentation (Press 'Red/leftmost color' button). These remotes with "wrong" color button orders are really a small minority here mainly targeted to some odd mediacenters or PS3 - at least here in the northern Europe.
I could imagine accepting a patch that centralizes handling the sequence in which the color buttons are displayed, and offers a standard interface to skin plugins that allows them to arrange the color buttons accordingly.
What I don't want to change is the actual functionality of the color buttons, meaning, for instance, the red button will always have the same functionality, no matter what sequence the remote control uses. I haven't looked into the original patch yet, so I can't say whether it only handles the display sequence or also messes with the functionality. At any rate, a patch that changes the functionality is unacceptable for me.
Klaus
Am 02.04.2011 12:23, schrieb Klaus Schmidinger:
I could imagine accepting a patch that centralizes handling the sequence in which the color buttons are displayed, and offers a standard interface to skin plugins that allows them to arrange the color buttons accordingly.
What I don't want to change is the actual functionality of the color buttons, meaning, for instance, the red button will always have the same functionality, no matter what sequence the remote control uses.
There is no simple solution to this. The problem is, that in some cases the meaning of the button is linked to their color ('red' means recording), and in some cases the meaning is linked to the placement (button 2 for backwards, 3 for forward).
Making the color <-> placement relation configurable will automatically break one or the other. The only 'clean' solution would be to decide by situation whether key assignment should be by-placement or by-color. So for example, in replay the assignment is BUTTON_1=jump, BUTTON_2=skip back, BUTTON_3=skip fwd, BUTTON_4=stop, while in EPG view, the assignment is BUTTON_RED=record, BUTTON_GREEN=now, BUTTON_YELLOW=next, BUTTON_BLUE=switch.
Generally, the goal is to match the color order in the OSD with the order on the remote, so the skins need to know the ordering. VDR internally, the keys are called kRed, kGreen, kYellow, kBlue, their meaning is obviously color related. So as long as the red button stays the red button, it doesn't matter whether the skin displays the red color button label on the left or right.
The most difficult question is, how to handle buttons by placement. A eKeys key cannot be kRed and kButton1 at the same time. Any query interface would break all the nice switch(Key) statements. (case getColorOfButton1(): ... is not a constant.)
My suggestion would be to add pseudo keys kButton1..kButton4, that are only transformed on demand:
switch (Key) { case kRed: ....
switch (MAP_COLOR_KEYS_TO_PLACEMENT(key)) { case kButton1: ...
Also, there should be a wrapper for SetHelp() to set the button labels by placement, so you either call SetHelp("Red", "Green", "Yellow", "Blue"), or SetHelpByPlacement("Left", "Mid-Left", "Mid-Right", "Right").
Finally, some documentation will need rewrites, from green/yellow to mid-left, mid-right color button to skip fwd/bwd.
All in all a lot of changes to do it properly...
Cheers,
Udo
PS: My remote has the color order red, green, yellow, blue, purple. ;)
On Sat, 2 Apr 2011 12:33:58 +0300 (EEST) Rolf Ahrenberg rahrenbe@cc.hut.fi wrote:
The RGYB color enumeration is defined in the video teletext standard and every TV/STB set implementing the teletext feature DOES use the mentioned color button order. I guess the teletext is used mainly in Europe, so there might be different conventions elsewhere, but the VDR is a STB for DVB standard that documents the teletext too.
IMO, you really should switch the OSD button colors in skin plugins instead of patching the core VDR. There will be some glitches with learning the remotes, but these can be fixed with some extra documentation (Press 'Red/leftmost color' button). These remotes with "wrong" color button orders are really a small minority here mainly targeted to some odd mediacenters or PS3 - at least here in the northern Europe.
It isn't true that only very obscure and trashy remotes have the buttons in the wrong order. I've got a Sony TV where the colours are arranged in a sort of cross layout with green above blue and red and yellow at the sides. It's a good quality remote that I think was used with a number of different models of Sony TV set and it was definitely designed to support teletext.
I've got another remote with the wrong order which came with a KWorld DVB card bought from Maplins, a major high street electronics chain. That remote isn't really usable with VDR anyway though, because the colours are also play, pause, stop and record. I suppose they didn't think that people would use teletext or MHEG while watching a recording, and there is no standard for the way that VDR uses the colours. I can't use the remote that came with my other card (Hauppauge) because the current kernel/DVB drivers aren't compatible with it (for at least the 2nd time in hstory). So I'm making do with a wireless keyboard until that's fixed.
On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 2:33 AM, Rolf Ahrenberg rahrenbe@cc.hut.fi wrote:
The RGYB color enumeration is defined in the video teletext standard and every TV/STB set implementing the teletext feature DOES use the mentioned color button order. I guess the teletext is used mainly in Europe, so there might be different conventions elsewhere, but the VDR is a STB for DVB standard that documents the teletext too.
I have two top end tv's, one Panasonic, one Sony. Both support teletext, neither have the color button scheme as RGYB. I would guess it's as you mentioned, maybe that scheme is commonly used in Europe but it's simply not true that RGYB is some standard used across the globe with only cheap obscure remotes not conforming to it.
-
Klaus Schmidinger -
Rolf Ahrenberg -
Tony Houghton -
Udo Richter -
VDR User