Problems receiving couple of german channels DVB-S

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Peer Oliver Schmidt

28 Jan 2007 28 Jan '07

3:43 p.m.

Hi,

I have problems receiving some channels (ARD, ZDF,N3, DMAX) in good quality. Receiving other channels (SAT.1, RTL, Pro7, Das Vierte) works just fine.

I have three budget TT cards connected to a multiswitch in my attic, just a few meters cable away from my dish. Each DVB-S card is running on a different IRQ.

Is it possible, I just miswired the multiswitch?

Any idea on how to fix this problem would be greatly appreciated.

-- Best regards Peer Oliver Schmidt PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA

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martin

28 Jan 28 Jan

5:33 p.m.

New subject: AW: Problems receiving couple of german channels DVB-S

Hi Peer Oliver,

can you give us a hint what the problem is? So if you only have budget cards, what kind of frontend do you use? Need to know a bit more from your setup.

Regards, Martin

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: vdr-bounces@linuxtv.org [mailto:vdr-bounces@linuxtv.org] Im Auftrag von Peer Oliver Schmidt Gesendet: Sonntag, 28. Januar 2007 15:43 An: VDR Mailing List Betreff: [vdr] Problems receiving couple of german channels DVB-S

Hi,

I have problems receiving some channels (ARD, ZDF,N3, DMAX) in good quality. Receiving other channels (SAT.1, RTL, Pro7, Das Vierte) works just fine.

I have three budget TT cards connected to a multiswitch in my attic, just a few meters cable away from my dish. Each DVB-S card is running on a different IRQ.

Is it possible, I just miswired the multiswitch?

Any idea on how to fix this problem would be greatly appreciated.

-- Best regards Peer Oliver Schmidt PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA _______________________________________________ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr

Peer Oliver Schmidt

5:48 p.m.

New subject: AW: Problems receiving couple of german channels DVB-S

Hello martin,

...

Sorry for not being more verbose.

I am using streamdev-server on the VDR in the attic, and VLC as a frontend running downstairs on a WinXP or Ubuntu system. The problem is a totally distorted picture, like when I have thunderstorm outside with bad reception. Block artefacts etc. Sometimes it gets so bad, VLC quits from errors.

The funny thing is, it is ONLY on some of the channels.

-- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Peer Oliver Schmidt the internet company PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA

martin

6:25 p.m.

New subject: AW: AW: Problems receiving couple of german channels DVB-S

Hi Oli,

have you installed femon? Have you had a look at the perception level? What does it say? Is there a difference when tuning to SAT.1 (which is on the same stream like Pro7).

One other thing that comes to my mind: Sat1 and Pro7 use 7.5MBit/s whereas ARD, ZDF and stuff use 15MBit, which can be a problem on poor network performance.

I also use streamdev-server a lot, over my 802.11g WLAN .. with VLC on Vista already. I use it, to watch TV in my bedroom.

Martin

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: vdr-bounces@linuxtv.org [mailto:vdr-bounces@linuxtv.org] Im Auftrag von Peer Oliver Schmidt Gesendet: Sonntag, 28. Januar 2007 17:49 An: VDR Mailing List Betreff: Re: AW: [vdr] Problems receiving couple of german channels DVB-S

Hello martin,

...

Sorry for not being more verbose.

The funny thing is, it is ONLY on some of the channels.

-- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Peer Oliver Schmidt the internet company PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA _______________________________________________ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr

Peer Oliver Schmidt

6:56 p.m.

Hi martin,

thanks for your help.

...

have you installed femon? Have you had a look at the perception level? What does it say?

I have it installed, and this is the output:

First without specific tuning to any channel

And now I switch on VLC to ARD, and receive this:

To me, I see a difference within the signal. But unfortunately, I can't interpret the message.

...

Is there a difference when tuning to SAT.1 (which is on the same stream like Pro7).

SAT.1, RTL and Pro7 look good, all the time.

...

One other thing that comes to my mind: Sat1 and Pro7 use 7.5MBit/s whereas ARD, ZDF and stuff use 15MBit, which can be a problem on poor network performance.

I have the ASTRA.HD channel running right now in the background (S19.2E-1-1088-21101) and it works perfect. Input-Bitrare according to VLC is ~ 19MBit.

...

I also use streamdev-server a lot, over my 802.11g WLAN .. with VLC on Vista already. I use it, to watch TV in my bedroom.

I also use VOMP to connect Hauppauge MediaMVPs and they have the same problem with those channels. Do you know anything else, that ARD + ZDF have in common, that is different from Pro7 and RTL? Is it possible, I have plugged the cables wrong into the Multiswitch?

Thanks for your help on a sunday afternoon :-)

-- Best regards Peer Oliver Schmidt PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA

martin

11:33 p.m.

New subject: AW: Problems receiving couple of german channels DVB-S

Hi,

there is a plugin Femon available - much nicer output! You should check it out! Then you have clear text messages.

So, I'm no expert, but "ber" and "unc" must be zero (I'm sure you can have a look in wiki). So, as you see, you had some values there. This seems then to be a signal problem. Either your sat dish is not perfectly set up or you may have problems with v/h switching. Btw: I use femon plugin in vdr to adjust my dish. So how did you do?

Regards, Martin

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: vdr-bounces@linuxtv.org [mailto:vdr-bounces@linuxtv.org] Im Auftrag von Peer Oliver Schmidt Gesendet: Sonntag, 28. Januar 2007 18:57 An: VDR Mailing List Betreff: Re: [vdr] Problems receiving couple of german channels DVB-S

Hi martin,

thanks for your help.

...

have you installed femon? Have you had a look at the perception level?

What

...

does it say?

I have it installed, and this is the output:

First without specific tuning to any channel

And now I switch on VLC to ARD, and receive this:

To me, I see a difference within the signal. But unfortunately, I can't interpret the message.

...

Is there a difference when tuning to SAT.1 (which is on the same stream like Pro7).

SAT.1, RTL and Pro7 look good, all the time.

...

One other thing that comes to my mind: Sat1 and Pro7 use 7.5MBit/s whereas ARD, ZDF and stuff use 15MBit, which can be a problem on poor network performance.

I have the ASTRA.HD channel running right now in the background (S19.2E-1-1088-21101) and it works perfect. Input-Bitrare according to VLC is ~ 19MBit.

...

I also use streamdev-server a lot, over my 802.11g WLAN .. with VLC on

Vista

...

already. I use it, to watch TV in my bedroom.

Thanks for your help on a sunday afternoon :-)

-- Best regards Peer Oliver Schmidt PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA _______________________________________________ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr

Peer Oliver Schmidt

11:53 p.m.

Hello Martin,

...

there is a plugin Femon available - much nicer output! You should check it out! Then you have clear text messages.

Problem here is, I don't have access to the regular VDR OSD.

...

So, I'm no expert, but "ber" and "unc" must be zero (I'm sure you can have a look in wiki). So, as you see, you had some values there.

I will see what I can find.

...

This seems then to be a signal problem. Either your sat dish is not perfectly set up or you may have problems with v/h switching. Btw: I use femon plugin in vdr to adjust my dish. So how did you do?

The dish had been setup ages ago. So, I guess, I will have a look at the switching.

Thanks for your help.

-- Best regards Peer Oliver Schmidt PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA

Rob Davis

29 Jan 29 Jan

9 a.m.

Peer Oliver Schmidt wrote:

...

I think it's worth using your ubuntu system to get to the vdr interface every now and then..

Which ubuntu are you using?

I had to download and compile xine-lib (for multiple audio streams to work), vdr-1.4.5 (for the development environment) and xineliboutput, then compiled xinelibout to run as a frontend.

(if you want, I can pack my compiled archives up of these environments and let you just run make install on them..)

vdr-sxfe xvdr://vdrserver works to get me a vdr interface and picture. You can even use a remote with it - very nice for watching tv from the bed.

On the server side, compile xineliboutput but don't run a local frontend, allow remote connections.

For windows, I found the vompclient excellent, although no support yet for multiple audio streams. Although it won't solve the problem here of testing the signal level.

...

-- Latest news on http://www.streetcredo.org.uk/rob Rob Davis

Peer Oliver Schmidt

11:21 a.m.

Hello Rob,

...

feisty

...

I'd appreciate that. Thanks.

...

I am using the deb packages provided by e-tobi at the moment

...

I am using VOMP successfully with the Hauppauge MediaMVP. After installing the DirectX SDK the VOMP-Windows Client works ok, but as you've said, it won't solve the signal problem.

I will go and try the ubuntu route.

Thanks for your help.

-- Best regards Peer Oliver Schmidt PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA

Peer Oliver Schmidt

2:47 p.m.

Hello Rob,

...

ok, I am now running vdr-sxfe and I have the OSD. Thanks for kicking me in my behind :-)

Under http://theinternet.dyndns.org/~pos/Bildschirmfoto-VDR.png

is a screenshot displaying the signal information.

I have switched a little bit around, and a couple of the ARD channels, like EinsExtra, EinsFestival and EinsPlus work fine, ZDFtheaterkanal, ZDFdokukanal and ZDFinfokanal do exhibit the problem, that BER and UNC contains numbers != 0, not large always maximum 2 (hex)digits, but none the less.

Assuming I have crossed some high and lowband connection between the multiswitch and the dish, am I right to assume, that I would get no picture at all?

-- Best regards Peer Oliver Schmidt PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA

Patrick Cernko

9:12 a.m.

Peer Oliver Schmidt wrote:

...

A friend of mine has problems on similar channels. We found out, that they result from interferences with his DECT wireless phone. Maybe you should check that by powering of the phones and base station?

So long,

-- Patrick Cernko | mailto:errror@errror.org | http://www.errror.org "Wer HTML postet oder gepostetes HTML quotet oder sich gepostetes oder gequotetes HTML beschafft, um es in Verkehr zu bringen, wird geplonkt." (anonym)

Peer Oliver Schmidt

11:22 a.m.

Hello Patrick Cernko,

...

[..]

...

I don't have any DECT phones in the house :-), and the W-LAN APs are far away. But thanks for the tip, I will keep it mind for the future.

-- Best regards Peer Oliver Schmidt PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA

martin

5:11 p.m.

New subject: AW: Problems receiving couple of german channels DVB-S

Another thing that comes to my mind. We eliminate everything that might cause some interaction problem.

Get rid of any multiswitch - so just one LNB directly connected to one DVB-S card. No other card in the system. Do you still see the problems?

Let me know, Martin

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: vdr-bounces@linuxtv.org [mailto:vdr-bounces@linuxtv.org] Im Auftrag von Peer Oliver Schmidt Gesendet: Montag, 29. Januar 2007 11:23 An: VDR Mailing List Betreff: Re: [vdr] Problems receiving couple of german channels DVB-S

Hello Patrick Cernko,

...

[..]

...

I don't have any DECT phones in the house :-), and the W-LAN APs are far away. But thanks for the tip, I will keep it mind for the future.

-- Best regards Peer Oliver Schmidt PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA _______________________________________________ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr

Peer Oliver Schmidt

6:08 p.m.

New subject: AW: Problems receiving couple of german channels DVB-S

martin schrieb:

...

IIRC, unfortunately, this won't work, as far as I understand the LNB. It is one of those 4-connector (I never know whether these are the Quad LNBs or Quattro LNBs) LNBs that NEEDS a multiswitch.

Or is my knowledge wrong on the above?

...

And BTW: kyrill moved my SAT dish .. so, why are you sure, that your dish is rocket solid?

We have had the problems for a long time ... :-)

-- Best regards Peer Oliver Schmidt the internet company PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA

martin

7:38 p.m.

New subject: AW: AW: Problems receiving couple of german channels DVB-S

Okay .. but you still can reduce your system down to one DVB-S card ..

So, what do you plan to prove that your multiswitch is not broken? What do you do to doublecheck, that your sat dish is correctly set up?

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: vdr-bounces@linuxtv.org [mailto:vdr-bounces@linuxtv.org] Im Auftrag von Peer Oliver Schmidt Gesendet: Montag, 29. Januar 2007 18:09 An: VDR Mailing List Betreff: Re: AW: [vdr] Problems receiving couple of german channels DVB-S

martin schrieb:

...

Another thing that comes to my mind. We eliminate everything that might cause some interaction problem.

Get rid of any multiswitch - so just one LNB directly connected to one

DVB-S

...

card. No other card in the system. Do you still see the problems?

IIRC, unfortunately, this won't work, as far as I understand the LNB. It is one of those 4-connector (I never know whether these are the Quad LNBs or Quattro LNBs) LNBs that NEEDS a multiswitch.

Or is my knowledge wrong on the above?

...

And BTW: kyrill moved my SAT dish .. so, why are you sure, that your dish is rocket solid?

We have had the problems for a long time ... :-)

-- Best regards Peer Oliver Schmidt the internet company PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA _______________________________________________ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr

Peer Oliver Schmidt

7:50 p.m.

Hello martin,

thanks for your patience.

...

Okay .. but you still can reduce your system down to one DVB-S card ..

Yes, that I will do.

...

So, what do you plan to prove that your multiswitch is not broken?

I've changed it to another one.

...

What do you do to doublecheck, that your sat dish is correctly set up?

Ups, this sounds like I angered you. Sorry, if I did.

If the dish is misaligned, I assume I would have problems in all channels, wouldn't I?

Off upstairs to remove all but one card, and see what happens.

-- Best regards Peer Oliver Schmidt PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA

Peer Oliver Schmidt

8:22 p.m.

Hello again,

...

Off upstairs to remove all but one card, and see what happens.

back to the PC.

Same problem. Removed two of DVB-cards, no change.

Moved the cable to different ports on the multiswitch, no change.

Any other idea?

-- Best regards Peer Oliver Schmidt PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA

martin

9:22 p.m.

New subject: AW: Problems receiving couple of german channels DVB-S

http://www.flysat.com/astra19.php

Pro7, Sat1 comes Vertical ZDF,ARD,RTL comes horizontal.

If this is a pattern, can it be that you LNB is twisted? So H/V is not perfectly set up?

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: vdr-bounces@linuxtv.org [mailto:vdr-bounces@linuxtv.org] Im Auftrag von Peer Oliver Schmidt Gesendet: Montag, 29. Januar 2007 19:50 An: VDR Mailing List Betreff: Re: [vdr] Problems receiving couple of german channels DVB-S

Hello martin,

thanks for your patience.

...

Okay .. but you still can reduce your system down to one DVB-S card ..

Yes, that I will do.

...

So, what do you plan to prove that your multiswitch is not broken?

I've changed it to another one.

...

What do you do to doublecheck, that your sat dish is correctly set up?

Ups, this sounds like I angered you. Sorry, if I did.

If the dish is misaligned, I assume I would have problems in all channels, wouldn't I?

Off upstairs to remove all but one card, and see what happens.

-- Best regards Peer Oliver Schmidt PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA _______________________________________________ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr

Peer Oliver Schmidt

9:46 p.m.

New subject: AW: Problems receiving couple of german channels DVB-S

Martin,

you are amazing. You put very much work into helping me. I guess one day, I will have to buy you a beer or two :-)

...

Unfortunately, this is not the case. As written in one of my many messages, EinsPlus can be received without a problem. And if I understand the information in the channels.conf correct, it comes Horizontal as well. And RTL is looking good as well ...

Damn, there has to be a pattern/reason

-- Best regards Peer Oliver Schmidt PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA

martin

11:15 p.m.

New subject: AW: AW: Problems receiving couple of german channels DVB-S

Any obstacles in the way, like trees or so? There is something thats called Fresnel zone, which can be painful.

Any oscillating frequencies in your PC that may interfere the ~1GHz ZF signal?

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: vdr-bounces@linuxtv.org [mailto:vdr-bounces@linuxtv.org] Im Auftrag von Peer Oliver Schmidt Gesendet: Montag, 29. Januar 2007 21:47 An: VDR Mailing List Betreff: Re: AW: [vdr] Problems receiving couple of german channels DVB-S

Martin,

you are amazing. You put very much work into helping me. I guess one day, I will have to buy you a beer or two :-)

...

Damn, there has to be a pattern/reason

-- Best regards Peer Oliver Schmidt PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA _______________________________________________ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr

Peer Oliver Schmidt

30 Jan 30 Jan

7:32 a.m.

Good morning martin,

...

Any obstacles in the way, like trees or so? There is something that’s called Fresnel zone, which can be painful.

It is possible that some trees are in the way, but I'd say the house is far enough away, and the dish is high enough. And would an obstacle create problems only on some channels and not others?

...

Any oscillating frequencies in your PC that may interfere the ~1GHz ZF signal?

Well, it is regular PC with most stuff on board, except graphics card and the three DVB-S boards.

-- Best regards Peer Oliver Schmidt PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA

Peer Oliver Schmidt

29 Jan 29 Jan

3:30 p.m.

Hello list,

...

I've tried using szap to see if I can find the problem in one of my DVB-S cards. Unfortunately, no matter which card I use, I have bad reception for a couple of channels, and good reception for others.

Here is an excerpt from the szap log:

Bad reception (ZDF):

The interrupts:

vdr:~# cat /proc/interrupts CPU0 0: 2373754725 IO-APIC-edge timer 1: 9 IO-APIC-edge i8042 8: 1 IO-APIC-edge rtc 9: 0 IO-APIC-level acpi 14: 4835536 IO-APIC-edge ide0 15: 219 IO-APIC-edge ide1 50: 0 IO-APIC-level ohci_hcd:usb1 58: 0 IO-APIC-level ehci_hcd:usb2 66: 441811465 IO-APIC-level eth0 217: 298617322 IO-APIC-level saa7146 (0) 225: 265391314 IO-APIC-level saa7146 (1) 233: 271195814 IO-APIC-level saa7146 (2) NMI: 0 LOC: 2373832282 ERR: 0 MIS: 0

lshw Information for one of the cards (all identical):

*-multimedia:0 description: Multimedia controller product: SAA7146 vendor: Philips Semiconductors physical id: 6 bus info: pci@05:06.0 version: 01 width: 32 bits clock: 33MHz capabilities: bus_master configuration: driver=budget dvb resources: iomemory:da000000-da0001ff irq:217

Any and help is greatly appreciated.

-- Best regards Peer Oliver Schmidt PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA

martin

5:05 p.m.

New subject: AW: Problems receiving couple of german channels DVB-S

Okay,

we need to put then an eye on your hardware setup - this is a problem before the DVB-S cards. You where talking about 3 DVB-S cards, but how many LNB's do you have? How have you wired the system? We have: horizontal / vertical polarization and then lower and upper band! This makes 2x2 = 4 possible areas. So, if you go with more than 2 cards - 3 or 4 or more, you need a quad LNB with maybe some additional hardware.

Martin

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: vdr-bounces@linuxtv.org [mailto:vdr-bounces@linuxtv.org] Im Auftrag von Peer Oliver Schmidt Gesendet: Montag, 29. Januar 2007 15:31 An: VDR Mailing List Betreff: Re: [vdr] Problems receiving couple of german channels DVB-S

Hello list,

...

Here is an excerpt from the szap log:

Bad reception (ZDF):

The interrupts:

lshw Information for one of the cards (all identical):

Any and help is greatly appreciated.

-- Best regards Peer Oliver Schmidt PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA _______________________________________________ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr

Peer Oliver Schmidt

5:37 p.m.

Hello again martin,

...

I have four cables going from my LNB to a multiswitch. Three cables go from the multiswitch to the DVB-S cards.

If any of the four cables going to the Multiswitch were wrong, wouldn't the channels not work at all? I've looked thru the different channel settings, but could not find anything obvious, which would differentiate the good and the bad channels ...

Any ideas what else I can test?

Thanks.

-- Best regards Peer Oliver Schmidt PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA

martin

5:52 p.m.

New subject: AW: Problems receiving couple of german channels DVB-S

Again: reduce to one DVB-S card, get rid of the switch, direct connection from dish to DVB card.

And BTW: kyrill moved my SAT dish .. so, why are you sure, that your dish is rocket solid?

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: vdr-bounces@linuxtv.org [mailto:vdr-bounces@linuxtv.org] Im Auftrag von Peer Oliver Schmidt Gesendet: Montag, 29. Januar 2007 17:37 An: VDR Mailing List Betreff: Re:[vdr] Problems receiving couple of german channels DVB-S

Hello again martin,

...

we need to put then an eye on your hardware setup - this is a problem

before

...

I have four cables going from my LNB to a multiswitch. Three cables go from the multiswitch to the DVB-S cards.

Any ideas what else I can test?

Thanks.

-- Best regards Peer Oliver Schmidt PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA _______________________________________________ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr

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participants (4)

martin
Patrick Cernko
Peer Oliver Schmidt
Rob Davis