Dear Klaus,
I pay you respect, as you do a great job. You do a lot of work - for free - for the community! So, don't missunderstand me: I really do not intend to blame you personally!
But when it comes to the "Service" thinking of a VDR, things get difficult. VDR is a Service - nothing more, nothing less (SOA thinking).
The question "was there a recording" is neglibible. I don't care if there is a recording going on, when I want to watch a film. The main job of VDR at the time of watching a recording is to display the film. Who cares if the current _BACKGROUND_ recording is disturbed, it's a _FACT_ and i _CAN'T_ change anything at this time. But it drives me and my beloved mad, that we have a shutdown-show-shutdown-show (okay, don't want to do a cut'n'paste show here, but it was 10 maybe 15, 20 times!).
Make a switch and everything is fine. With your emergency exit you fixed problems, that are actually not yours! If the DVB drivers are buggy, try to push the responsibility to those, who _MUST_ take care of the problem. For me, I have Technotrend budget cards which never have a DVB driver problem, it makes make blood rush.
So long and schönes Pfingstsonntag, Martin
Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 21:19:34 +0200> From: Klaus.Schmidinger@cadsoft.de> To: vdr@linuxtv.org> Subject: Re: [vdr] Thunderstorm over Munich> > On 05/26/07 18:24, Martin wrote:> > Who is interested in the weather in Munich? Probably nobody, mine either> > as I was sitting indor to watch my favourite TV shows.> > > > Then suddenly a nice "emergency exit" .. i had this game for 15 Minutes ..> > > > I do not tell you how lucky I am that the thunderstorm is over now ..> > > > Thanks for letting me know, that vdr needs to exit, when there is a> > thunderstorm, while i am watching ...> > Was there recording going on at that time?> > Klaus> > _______________________________________________> vdr mailing list> vdr@linuxtv.org> http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
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Martin schrieb:
Dear Klaus,
I pay you respect, as you do a great job. You do a lot of work - for free - for the community! So, don't missunderstand me: I really do not intend to blame you personally!
But when it comes to the "Service" thinking of a VDR, things get difficult. VDR is a Service - nothing more, nothing less (SOA thinking).
The question "was there a recording" is neglibible. I don't care if there is a recording going on, when I want to watch a film. The main job of VDR at the time of watching a recording is to display the film. Who cares if the current _BACKGROUND_ recording is disturbed, it's a _FACT_ and i _CAN'T_ change anything at this time. But it drives me and my beloved mad, that we have a shutdown-show-shutdown-show (okay, don't want to do a cut'n'paste show here, but it was 10 maybe 15, 20 times!).
Make a switch and everything is fine. With your emergency exit you fixed problems, that are actually not yours! If the DVB drivers are buggy, try to push the responsibility to those, who _MUST_ take care of the problem. For me, I have Technotrend budget cards which never have a DVB driver problem, it makes make blood rush.
I would suggest you to calm down a littlebit. Your language is unapproriate i think - your point is easy - don't care about receiption problems - don't interrupt user (inter)action.
My questions: Isn't it enough to not use -w parameter ? If not, i'm sure somebody has allready a patch to fix this ? With the drivers getting very mature even for my TT Premium - Skystar2 setup, i agree that first point should not be anymore to assume the drivers failing. But that is all for development tree of vdr not for current stable. To get a proper dscussion, we need to list in which situation vdr is doing what, and how vdr should react.
Steffen
I have to say that I agree with both of you... constructive criticism is best!
As a quiet 'user' of vdr, for about a year, I agree with the sentiments in Martin's post. It is very frustrating that vdr exits when reception is less than perfect. I personally would prefer it if vdr announced on screen that there was a bad signal condition. This is particularly frustrating if at the time you are just watching a perfectly good recording.
So my vote would be for more benign handling of these situations so that I dont' get asked why 'it did that' all the time :-)
Thanks again for such a great piece of software. We are just 'nit picking' really of course!
Regards
Andrew
On 5/27/07, Steffen Barszus st_barszus@gmx.de wrote:
Martin schrieb:
Dear Klaus,
I pay you respect, as you do a great job. You do a lot of work - for free - for the community! So, don't missunderstand me: I really do not intend to blame you personally!
But when it comes to the "Service" thinking of a VDR, things get difficult. VDR is a Service - nothing more, nothing less (SOA thinking).
The question "was there a recording" is neglibible. I don't care if there is a recording going on, when I want to watch a film. The main job of VDR at the time of watching a recording is to display the film. Who cares if the current _BACKGROUND_ recording is disturbed, it's a _FACT_ and i _CAN'T_ change anything at this time. But it drives me and my beloved mad, that we have a shutdown-show-shutdown-show (okay, don't want to do a cut'n'paste show here, but it was 10 maybe 15, 20 times!).
Make a switch and everything is fine. With your emergency exit you fixed problems, that are actually not yours! If the DVB drivers are buggy, try to push the responsibility to those, who _MUST_ take care of the problem. For me, I have Technotrend budget cards which never have a DVB driver problem, it makes make blood rush.
I would suggest you to calm down a littlebit. Your language is unapproriate i think - your point is easy - don't care about receiption problems - don't interrupt user (inter)action.
My questions: Isn't it enough to not use -w parameter ? If not, i'm sure somebody has allready a patch to fix this ? With the drivers getting very mature even for my TT Premium - Skystar2 setup, i agree that first point should not be anymore to assume the drivers failing. But that is all for development tree of vdr not for current stable. To get a proper dscussion, we need to list in which situation vdr is doing what, and how vdr should react.
Steffen
vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
On Sun, 27 May 2007, Andrew Herron wrote:
I have to say that I agree with both of you... constructive criticism is best!
As a quiet 'user' of vdr, for about a year, I agree with the sentiments in Martin's post. It is very frustrating that vdr exits when reception is less than perfect. I personally would prefer it if vdr announced on screen that there was a bad signal condition. This is particularly frustrating if at the time you are just watching a perfectly good recording.
I agree, with all. I would suggest to handle viewing recording or running a plugin (dvd plugin or mp3/mplayer etc.) would get a priority, for example 90. Then every recording that has lower priority would not cause emergency exits, no matter what. But if recording has higher priority, it can cause restarts.
That's my suggestion. This is not that big problem for me, but lately I've got couple strange emergency exits. First live view looks ok and vdr was recording a show or was just starting. I started to watched old recorded show, after a while vdr restarts. Log shows just that emergency exit was initiated. Okay, my system does that only once, after that the recorded show can be watched ok.
Marko Myllymaa
On Monday 28 May 2007 10:38:50 Marko Myllymaa wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2007, Andrew Herron wrote:
I have to say that I agree with both of you... constructive criticism is best!
As a quiet 'user' of vdr, for about a year, I agree with the sentiments in Martin's post. It is very frustrating that vdr exits when reception is less than perfect. I personally would prefer it if vdr announced on screen that there was a bad signal condition. This is particularly frustrating if at the time you are just watching a perfectly good recording.
I agree, with all. I would suggest to handle viewing recording or running a plugin (dvd plugin or mp3/mplayer etc.) would get a priority, for example 90. Then every recording that has lower priority would not cause emergency exits, no matter what. But if recording has higher priority, it can cause restarts.
Hmm... IMO it is good that vdr tries to fix the recording problem with a restart. If I have the choice between a corrupted recording and being interrupted by a restart, I would choose the restart.
However, it gets anoying when vdr restarts constantly. That is IMO what bothers us here. So if vdr could have some sort of restart-retry timeout, things would be better, IMO.
A solution might be to create a file like .update, e.g. /video/.restart, that contains the timestamp of the vdr restart, when one happens. Could simply be a file with the time_t to make things realy simple.
Vdr reads that file on its next start, seconds later, and knows that it did try a restart. So it will not try another restart for a while.
Kind regards, Stefan
taferner@kde.org(Stefan Taferner) 28.05.07 14:22
Once upon a time "Stefan Taferner " shaped the electrons to say...
On Monday 28 May 2007 10:38:50 Marko Myllymaa wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2007, Andrew Herron wrote:
I have to say that I agree with both of you... constructive criticism is best!
As a quiet 'user' of vdr, for about a year, I agree with the sentiments in Martin's post. It is very frustrating that vdr exits when reception is less than perfect. I personally would prefer it if vdr announced on screen that there was a bad signal condition. This is particularly frustrating if at the time you are just watching a perfectly good recording.
I agree, with all. I would suggest to handle viewing recording or running a plugin (dvd plugin or mp3/mplayer etc.) would get a priority, for example 90. Then every recording that has lower priority would not cause emergency exits, no matter what. But if recording has higher priority, it can cause restarts.
Hmm... IMO it is good that vdr tries to fix the recording problem with a restart.
I think that's "historical" When VDR (and me?) were young, there were tons of problems with the driver, with firmware, with multithreading, reentrance and real hardware bugs etc. (remember: the drivers are mostly based on reverse engineerings! And the early baords tent to "hang" causd by bad Vcc filtering and desgin errors.) At that time it was the only way to reload the driver by resetting the entire box, because it was impossible to determine where the problem actually was.
Today i would ask: Why can't VDR read out the signal (strength/quality) information? As long as there is a bit level, there is no reason to reboot, tho no video stream might be decodable.
If I have the choice between a corrupted recording and being interrupted by a restart, I would choose the restart.
The recording is corrupt anyway. And if you have more than one card, and record more than one transponder at the same time both(!) recordings will be broken tho only one transponders had problems... Not really an option, or? At least me would prefere to have only 1 broken recording instead of 4...i would not choose to restart.
We had this thread all 12/18 month the last 5 years ;-) (Thunder storms in summer and snow in winter)
Rainer
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Martin -
Stefan Taferner -
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