Hi,
with the launch of Freeview Playback in the UK, I was wondering if anyone here knew how the series links were sent to the dvb box.
Freeview Playback is a system by which series link information is sent to the dvb box, allowing someone to select to record a whole series. Some sort of link information is sent, I guess in the epg, about each episode so that the dvb box can be sure it's always recording unique episodes of a series.
I thought that support for Freeview Playback would be an excellent addition to plugins like epgsearch.
If anyone knows any more about how the system works or has the DTG specification (can't see it on their website) please let me know.
Cheers,
Alex
On Tuesday 12 Jun 2007, Alex Stansfield wrote:
Hi,
with the launch of Freeview Playback in the UK, I was wondering if anyone here knew how the series links were sent to the dvb box.
Freeview Playback is a system by which series link information is sent to the dvb box, allowing someone to select to record a whole series. Some sort of link information is sent, I guess in the epg, about each episode so that the dvb box can be sure it's always recording unique episodes of a series.
I thought that support for Freeview Playback would be an excellent addition to plugins like epgsearch.
If anyone knows any more about how the system works or has the DTG specification (can't see it on their website) please let me know.
The EPG format is covered by this document (which I think is the latest issue)
http://webapp.etsi.org/action/OP/OP20060428/en_300468v010701o.pdf
so presumably the data fits in to the specification somehow. I looked through this and also checked the broadcast data with dvbsnoop last weekend but couldn't see anything obvious. Maybe no-one is broadcasting the links yet.
It would certainly be an excellent addition to VDR.
Dave
Hi,
My understanding is that the updated epg data has been transmitted here in the uK across all dvb-t mux's since about March/April. Not all channels may have completely updated there backend systems yet but all the major channels have done so. Clearly launching the Freeview Playback 'brand' and therefore its feature set means the epg data must be broadly available for these new PVR boxes to work as advertised.
So the data must be there somewhere ;-)
Andrew
On 6/12/07, Dave P vdr@pickles.me.uk wrote:
On Tuesday 12 Jun 2007, Alex Stansfield wrote:
Hi,
with the launch of Freeview Playback in the UK, I was wondering if anyone here knew how the series links were sent to the dvb box.
Freeview Playback is a system by which series link information is sent to the dvb box, allowing someone to select to record a whole series. Some sort of link information is sent, I guess in the epg, about each episode so that the dvb box can be sure it's always recording unique episodes of a series.
I thought that support for Freeview Playback would be an excellent addition to plugins like epgsearch.
If anyone knows any more about how the system works or has the DTG specification (can't see it on their website) please let me know.
The EPG format is covered by this document (which I think is the latest issue)
http://webapp.etsi.org/action/OP/OP20060428/en_300468v010701o.pdf
so presumably the data fits in to the specification somehow. I looked through this and also checked the broadcast data with dvbsnoop last weekend but couldn't see anything obvious. Maybe no-one is broadcasting the links yet.
It would certainly be an excellent addition to VDR.
Dave
vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Andrew Herron wrote:
Hi,
My understanding is that the updated epg data has been transmitted here in the uK across all dvb-t mux's since about March/April. Not all channels may have completely updated there backend systems yet but all the major channels have done so. Clearly launching the Freeview Playback 'brand' and therefore its feature set means the epg data must be broadly available for these new PVR boxes to work as advertised.
So the data must be there somewhere ;-)
Is it possible that this feature is part of the MHEG5 component of the Freeview service?
Regards,
Richard
On Wednesday 13 Jun 2007, Andrew Herron wrote:
Hi,
My understanding is that the updated epg data has been transmitted here in the uK across all dvb-t mux's since about March/April. Not all channels may have completely updated there backend systems yet but all the major channels have done so. Clearly launching the Freeview Playback 'brand' and therefore its feature set means the epg data must be broadly available for these new PVR boxes to work as advertised.
So the data must be there somewhere ;-)
Is "Freeview Playback" the same as "TV-Anytime"? The latter is covered by an ETSI specification TS 102 323, though I haven't found a copy online as yet, and the data is carried in the EIT tables.
Dave
The document we need to look at is the one that specifies how to process Event Information (AKA EPG) and is called "ETSI EN 300 468". The latest one is found here;
http://webapp.etsi.org/action/OP/OP20060428/en_300468v010701o.pdf
It looks like section 5.2.4 contains the information we are looking for, this covers the Event Information Table (EIT). This should be possible to decode in a similar way the 'scan' program grabs, extracts and processes the Network Information Table (PID 0x10), except you'd want to work on PID 0x12 instead.
On 6/13/07, Dave P vdr@pickles.me.uk wrote:
On Wednesday 13 Jun 2007, Andrew Herron wrote:
Hi,
My understanding is that the updated epg data has been transmitted here in the uK across all dvb-t mux's since about March/April. Not all channels may have completely updated there backend systems yet but all the major channels have done so. Clearly launching the Freeview Playback 'brand' and therefore its feature set means the epg data must be broadly available for these new PVR boxes to work as advertised.
So the data must be there somewhere ;-)
Is "Freeview Playback" the same as "TV-Anytime"? The latter is covered by an ETSI specification TS 102 323, though I haven't found a copy online as yet, and the data is carried in the EIT tables.
Dave
vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
On Thursday 14 Jun 2007, Andrew Herron wrote:
The document we need to look at is the one that specifies how to process Event Information (AKA EPG) and is called "ETSI EN 300 468". The latest one is found here;
http://webapp.etsi.org/action/OP/OP20060428/en_300468v010701o.pdf
It looks like section 5.2.4 contains the information we are looking for, this covers the Event Information Table (EIT). This should be possible to decode in a similar way the 'scan' program grabs, extracts and processes the Network Information Table (PID 0x10), except you'd want to work on PID 0x12 instead.
OK I've tried looking again. The ITV1 multiplex at least is broadcasting EIT descriptor 0x76 (content identifier descriptor) which is part of the TV-Anytime spec. Oddly, I didn't see that last night.
More investigation needed, but the data does seem to be there.
Dave
So on the basis that the enhanced EPG data is in the EIT how would this be added to vdr?
A patch? A plug-in? Any views on this?
On 6/14/07, Dave P vdr@pickles.me.uk wrote:
On Thursday 14 Jun 2007, Andrew Herron wrote:
The document we need to look at is the one that specifies how to process Event Information (AKA EPG) and is called "ETSI EN 300 468". The latest one is found here;
http://webapp.etsi.org/action/OP/OP20060428/en_300468v010701o.pdf
It looks like section 5.2.4 contains the information we are looking for, this covers the Event Information Table (EIT). This should be possible to decode in a similar way the 'scan' program grabs, extracts and processes the Network Information Table (PID 0x10), except you'd want to work on PID 0x12 instead.
OK I've tried looking again. The ITV1 multiplex at least is broadcasting EIT descriptor 0x76 (content identifier descriptor) which is part of the TV-Anytime spec. Oddly, I didn't see that last night.
More investigation needed, but the data does seem to be there.
Dave
vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Andrew Herron wrote:
So on the basis that the enhanced EPG data is in the EIT how would this be added to vdr?
A patch? A plug-in? Any views on this?
Well for me my preference would be to have support in epgsearch. I'm not sure how widely used this plugin is but I adore it and use it for series recording and epg replacement. My choice would be that when you create a search from a program in the epg it detects if there is series link for that program and offers to use that as it's search method.
However I guess it would probably make sense to be a patch to vdr so that it's available to all in one place and doesn't have to be implemented in multiple plugins (as I'm sure the people who don't used epgsearch would still like this feature).
So perhaps a patch to vdr that does the hard work and then plugins can support it if they wish (so I could still setup the series recordings through epgsearch)
just my 2p,
Cheers,
Alex
On 12/06/07, Alex Stansfield mailing-lists@jinkies.net wrote:
with the launch of Freeview Playback in the UK, I was wondering if anyone here knew how the series links were sent to the dvb box.
...
If anyone knows any more about how the system works or has the DTG specification (can't see it on their website) please let me know.
MythTV seems to have added support:
http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/2811
On Friday 15 Jun 2007, Jonathan McDowell wrote:
On 12/06/07, Alex Stansfield mailing-lists@jinkies.net wrote:
If anyone knows any more about how the system works or has the DTG specification (can't see it on their website) please let me know.
MythTV seems to have added support:
Hmmm. I worked out the scheme using dvbsnoop last night, then decided it couldn't possibly be so simple. Seems I was right after all...
The data is transmitted in the EIT. Each entry has zero, 1 or 2 Content Identifier Descriptors, with table ID 0x76. The format of this descriptor seems to be:
Descriptor tag, 8 bits (always 0x76) Descriptor length, 8 bits crid_type, 6 bits crid_location, 2 bits (always seems to be 00) crid_len, 8 bits crid_data, crid_len bytes.
If crid_type = 0x31 then crid_data contains the program ID, which I think is supposed to uniquely identify the programme irrespective of repeats etc.
If crid_type = 0x32 then crid_data contains the series ID, which should be the same across all episodes of a series. The series ID is sometimes omitted if the programme is a one-off.
I'm not sure just how unique these identifiers are supposed to be; the series identifiers are generally 5-digit numbers or 6-character alpha strings preceded by "/", while the program ID seems to have the episode number appended.
On Sandy Heath I only see this data on the BBC, "4" and sky channels, not ITV.
Dave
Great Stuff. My understanding was that this data was generally available for the main UK channels.
On 6/15/07, Dave P vdr@pickles.me.uk wrote:
On Friday 15 Jun 2007, Jonathan McDowell wrote:
On 12/06/07, Alex Stansfield mailing-lists@jinkies.net wrote:
If anyone knows any more about how the system works or has the DTG specification (can't see it on their website) please let me know.
MythTV seems to have added support:
Hmmm. I worked out the scheme using dvbsnoop last night, then decided it couldn't possibly be so simple. Seems I was right after all...
The data is transmitted in the EIT. Each entry has zero, 1 or 2 Content Identifier Descriptors, with table ID 0x76. The format of this descriptor seems to be:
Descriptor tag, 8 bits (always 0x76) Descriptor length, 8 bits crid_type, 6 bits crid_location, 2 bits (always seems to be 00) crid_len, 8 bits crid_data, crid_len bytes.
If crid_type = 0x31 then crid_data contains the program ID, which I think is supposed to uniquely identify the programme irrespective of repeats etc.
If crid_type = 0x32 then crid_data contains the series ID, which should be the same across all episodes of a series. The series ID is sometimes omitted if the programme is a one-off.
I'm not sure just how unique these identifiers are supposed to be; the series identifiers are generally 5-digit numbers or 6-character alpha strings preceded by "/", while the program ID seems to have the episode number appended.
On Sandy Heath I only see this data on the BBC, "4" and sky channels, not ITV.
Dave
vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Dave P wrote:
On Friday 15 Jun 2007, Jonathan McDowell wrote:
On 12/06/07, Alex Stansfield mailing-lists@jinkies.net wrote:
If anyone knows any more about how the system works or has the DTG specification (can't see it on their website) please let me know.
MythTV seems to have added support:
Hmmm. I worked out the scheme using dvbsnoop last night, then decided it couldn't possibly be so simple. Seems I was right after all...
I've been finding my way around the vdr source code as the idea of support for this series link has me interested in seeing if it's something I might be able to do or help with.
I guess we'd need to store the series link information in the epg.data file. The question is where? I figured the two options were to put it on the end of the event line (the one that starts with E and hold the event ID, start time, duration, etc) or to create a new line specifically for it.
Also I was wondering about the amount of support to be put into vdr. To have vdr support series recording would, imo, be quite a bit of work when there are plugins that cover that sort of thing. So I was thinking that it might be best to start with just adding support for finding the series link, storing it in the epg and adding the property to the Event class.
I haven't figured out how plugins interact with vdr to grab Event information but it would need to be able to pass the Series Link ID to a plugin if it asks for it. An example would be epgsearch, when I select an event in the EPG and hit '4' it creates a search from the event. It would be nice if when i do that it checks to see if the Event has a series link and if it does offers to create a search based on the Series Link.
Anyway that was just a few thoughts I had. If i'm going off on the wrong track please let me know, I've never done any work on VDR itself before.
Cheers,
Alex
On Monday 18 Jun 2007, Alex Stansfield wrote:
I've been finding my way around the vdr source code as the idea of support for this series link has me interested in seeing if it's something I might be able to do or help with.
I guess we'd need to store the series link information in the epg.data file. The question is where? I figured the two options were to put it on the end of the event line (the one that starts with E and hold the event ID, start time, duration, etc) or to create a new line specifically for it.
Also I was wondering about the amount of support to be put into vdr. To have vdr support series recording would, imo, be quite a bit of work when there are plugins that cover that sort of thing. So I was thinking that it might be best to start with just adding support for finding the series link, storing it in the epg and adding the property to the Event class.
I haven't figured out how plugins interact with vdr to grab Event information but it would need to be able to pass the Series Link ID to a plugin if it asks for it. An example would be epgsearch, when I select an event in the EPG and hit '4' it creates a search from the event. It would be nice if when i do that it checks to see if the Event has a series link and if it does offers to create a search based on the Series Link.
Anyway that was just a few thoughts I had. If i'm going off on the wrong track please let me know, I've never done any work on VDR itself before.
One issue is whether this is a global standard (in which case perhaps vdr ought to support it) or a UK-only scheme (where a plug-in might be more appropriate).
Do other countries / broadcast systems implement "Freeview Playback" aka "TV-Anytime" (ETSI TS 102 323)?
I believe TV-Anytime is a European standard.
On 6/24/07, Dave P vdr@pickles.me.uk wrote:
On Monday 18 Jun 2007, Alex Stansfield wrote:
I've been finding my way around the vdr source code as the idea of support for this series link has me interested in seeing if it's something I might be able to do or help with.
I guess we'd need to store the series link information in the epg.data file. The question is where? I figured the two options were to put it on the end of the event line (the one that starts with E and hold the event ID, start time, duration, etc) or to create a new line specifically for it.
Also I was wondering about the amount of support to be put into vdr. To have vdr support series recording would, imo, be quite a bit of work when there are plugins that cover that sort of thing. So I was thinking that it might be best to start with just adding support for finding the series link, storing it in the epg and adding the property to the Event class.
I haven't figured out how plugins interact with vdr to grab Event information but it would need to be able to pass the Series Link ID to a plugin if it asks for it. An example would be epgsearch, when I select an event in the EPG and hit '4' it creates a search from the event. It would be nice if when i do that it checks to see if the Event has a series link and if it does offers to create a search based on the Series Link.
Anyway that was just a few thoughts I had. If i'm going off on the wrong track please let me know, I've never done any work on VDR itself before.
One issue is whether this is a global standard (in which case perhaps vdr ought to support it) or a UK-only scheme (where a plug-in might be more appropriate).
Do other countries / broadcast systems implement "Freeview Playback" aka "TV-Anytime" (ETSI TS 102 323)? -- Dave
vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Andrew Herron wrote:
I believe TV-Anytime is a European standard.
Wikipedia seems to agree:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV-Anytime
I guess we'd need Klaus' input on whether he's happy with us sticking extra stuff in the epg.
Cheers,
Alex
On Tuesday 26 Jun 2007, Alex Stansfield wrote:
Andrew Herron wrote:
I believe TV-Anytime is a European standard.
Wikipedia seems to agree:
I now have the TVAnytime spec TS 102 323 from www.etsi.org (painless automated registration required) together with a couple of the referenced documents. From first reading it appears that the Freeview product is a cut-down and not-entirely-compatible version of TVA; there seems to be no RNT table broadcast on PID 0x16, and the crid_type field of the Content Identifier Descriptor has the 'user private' bit set.
I'll do some more digging.
Great. I can see that support for TVAnytime in the main codebase for vdr will happen very quickly - if at all. So i guess that mean either a patch or a plugin will be the best route to implement support for this.
On 6/26/07, Dave P vdr@pickles.me.uk wrote:
On Tuesday 26 Jun 2007, Alex Stansfield wrote:
Andrew Herron wrote:
I believe TV-Anytime is a European standard.
Wikipedia seems to agree:
I now have the TVAnytime spec TS 102 323 from www.etsi.org (painless automated registration required) together with a couple of the referenced documents. From first reading it appears that the Freeview product is a cut-down and not-entirely-compatible version of TVA; there seems to be no RNT table broadcast on PID 0x16, and the crid_type field of the Content Identifier Descriptor has the 'user private' bit set.
I'll do some more digging.
Dave
vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
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Alex Stansfield -
Andrew Herron -
Dave P -
Jonathan McDowell -
Richard Scobie