Quoting Peter Dittmann Peter.Dittmann@pldsnet.com:
E.g. ctvdr/debian uses (I think ...) /var/vdr/videoX directly to mount
the
partition.
The directories are named /var/lib/video.XX and this are not necessary partitions, but could be of course.
Strange as it finally uses symlinks to create the /videoX. So change
would
be very small indeed.
I can't see any evidence for this symlinks, and I don't know a reason for this. The vdr gets told via the option '-v /var/lib/video.00' where the video dir is located.
But you see what I'm pointing to. The distries are usually mounting the partition directly and then use the xxx/video[.]xx directly.
Using the previous suggestion would mean the path tree of most of the distributions need to be somewhat different. E.g. like this:
/var/lib/vdr |- video.00 | |- video | |- somthing-else | |- video.01 |- video |- somthing-else-2 ...
So better suggestion for the distri maintainers would be to use the \mnt tree for mounting any partitions. Then always create a (dummy) directory on the video partitions ("video" or "vdr"). Then linking this mounted directories as /var/liv/video.xx.
/mnt/video.00 --> /mnt/[h|s]d[a-z][0-9] /mnt/video.01 --> /mnt/[h|s]d[a-z][0-9] ...
/var/lib |- video.00 --> /mnt/video.00/video | |- video.01 --> /mnt/video.01/video ...
Quite a difference to what is now. Hopefulls the distri maintainers read this and make some sensible changes to the standard path tree to make VDR's video directories collision free with temp directories for burn ...
Obviously the distries are not based on usual use configurations currently for how to handle the huge temp files for some of the tools for burning. This make life more complex and will cause a lot of individual effort to modify the installation after the distribution is installed. You can individually do a lot. It's just a matter of knowledge and ideas. But as I assume that currently 80..90% of VDR users are starting from a distri rather than LFS this is a field issue. And obviously the safe mounting suggestion for a single disc system wasn't that obvious. So there is room for improvement ;-)
Peter
Peter Dittmann schrieb:
I can't see any evidence for this symlinks, and I don't know a reason for this. The vdr gets told via the option '-v /var/lib/video.00' where the video dir is located.
But you see what I'm pointing to. The distries are usually mounting the partition directly and then use the xxx/video[.]xx directly.
Using the previous suggestion would mean the path tree of most of the distributions need to be somewhat different. E.g. like this:
/var/lib/vdr |- video.00 | |- video | |- somthing-else | |- video.01 |- video |- somthing-else-2 ...
So better suggestion for the distri maintainers would be to use the \mnt tree for mounting any partitions. Then always create a (dummy) directory on the video partitions ("video" or "vdr"). Then linking this mounted directories as /var/liv/video.xx.
/mnt/video.00 --> /mnt/[h|s]d[a-z][0-9] /mnt/video.01 --> /mnt/[h|s]d[a-z][0-9] ...
/var/lib |- video.00 --> /mnt/video.00/video | |- video.01 --> /mnt/video.01/video ...
Quite a difference to what is now. Hopefulls the distri maintainers read this and make some sensible changes to the standard path tree to make VDR's video directories collision free with temp directories for burn ...
Obviously the distries are not based on usual use configurations currently for how to handle the huge temp files for some of the tools for burning. This make life more complex and will cause a lot of individual effort to modify the installation after the distribution is installed. You can individually do a lot. It's just a matter of knowledge and ideas. But as I assume that currently 80..90% of VDR users are starting from a distri rather than LFS this is a field issue. And obviously the safe mounting suggestion for a single disc system wasn't that obvious. So there is room for improvement ;-)
Yes agree - as i started the topic i need to admit i run into it not getting this idea even though i even played around with bind mounts short before ;)
For modern distribution i would suggest to use bind mounts however and mount point would be more likely /media/..... I think this is cleaner. Mounting the discs/partitions the way its done is the obvious way i think, and having a directory of its own and doing all kind of things to the content therein is pretty vdr specific. So the suggested (and sensible) recommendations are in fact not that obvious. This also shows that there is a solution/recommendation to create some .do_not_touch files in possible empty directories required by plugins to make them not-empty this way, to ensure vdr to startup with these plugins (dvdswitch, burn, etc)
I'm pretty sure it will now spread the word ;). For me the issue is solved with that and hope ctvdr , easyvdr etc will default it to something like that :)
I have to do some updates to a few installations now to change it accordingly.
Kind Regards
Steffen
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Steffen Barszus st_barszus@gmx.de wrote:
the content therein is pretty vdr specific. So the suggested (and sensible) recommendations are in fact not that obvious. This also shows that there is a solution/recommendation to create some .do_not_touch files in possible empty directories required by plugins to make them not-empty this way, to ensure vdr to startup with these plugins (dvdswitch, burn, etc)
The most sensible thing to me would be to ask the authors of those plugins to make the directories it uses user-defined instead of hardcoding VDR's recording directory, or change them in the source. It seems backwards to change VDR's core behavior because of poor plugin design. That's just my 2 cents, maybe I've missed something though.
Cheers, Derek
VDR User schrieb:
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Steffen Barszus st_barszus@gmx.de wrote:
the content therein is pretty vdr specific. So the suggested (and sensible) recommendations are in fact not that obvious. This also shows that there is a solution/recommendation to create some .do_not_touch files in possible empty directories required by plugins to make them not-empty this way, to ensure vdr to startup with these plugins (dvdswitch, burn, etc)
The most sensible thing to me would be to ask the authors of those plugins to make the directories it uses user-defined instead of hardcoding VDR's recording directory, or change them in the source. It seems backwards to change VDR's core behavior because of poor plugin design. That's just my 2 cents, maybe I've missed something though.
You have missed something indeed. Don't assume poor implementation without checking the facts or even read all of them. There are different type of users, usages, requirements out there then you might think. This is going from 300Mhz / 40GiB to 2x3Ghz / 8TB harddisk space - LFS to Linvdr and everything inbetween. So keep calm and play nice. We talked about distribution defaults here. Nobody is asking anymore for change in vdr.
These plugins do have configurable directories. They have in common, that they need plenty of space. The distribution defaults are as example as below And thats where the problems started.
Just looked it up: dvdswitch: # Path to DVD images # (default is /var/lib/video/film/dvd) # # --imagedir=PATH
burn: # use DIR to store ISO images # (default: /video/iso) #
This is ctvdr/e-tobi mix (still 1.4.7 here - might have changed in the meantime) And i don't blame anyone - i just hope next version of debian/e-tobi,c'tvdr, ubuntu, EasyVDR <insert your favourite here> will pick up the suggestions made :)
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Steffen Barszus st_barszus@gmx.de wrote:
You have missed something indeed. Don't assume poor implementation without checking the facts or even read all of them. There are different type of users, usages, requirements out there then you might think. This is going from 300Mhz / 40GiB to 2x3Ghz / 8TB harddisk space - LFS to Linvdr and everything inbetween. So keep calm and play nice. We talked about distribution defaults here. Nobody is asking anymore for change in vdr.
These plugins do have configurable directories. They have in common, that they need plenty of space. The distribution defaults are as example as below And thats where the problems started.
Easy there fella, no need to get upset. Your very first message was asking if there's a way to change VDR's behavior because it deleted other crap you put there (whether on accident or on purpose), no? Later a comment about certain plugins needing to have empty directories in VDR's recording dir, which prompted my "poor plugin design" comment. If you can already define where these plugins put the empty dirs, why not make it easy on yourself and just put it somewhere else since VDR's recording dir isn't appropriate to begin with?
I agree with you about one thing though, there are all different kinds of users so if you're dealing with pre-made packages/distributions then yeah do whatever best suits that need. I personally have no interest in those but I'm not knockin' anyone who does. Whatever method people use to get their VDR going! ;)
On Tuesday 21 April 2009, Peter Dittmann wrote:
So better suggestion for the distri maintainers would be to use the \mnt tree for mounting any partitions.
I disagree, /mnt is system admin area, not something distros should touch. http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#MNTMOUNTPOINTFORATEMPORARILYMOU...
Ville Skyttä schrieb:
On Tuesday 21 April 2009, Peter Dittmann wrote:
So better suggestion for the distri maintainers would be to use the \mnt tree for mounting any partitions.
I disagree, /mnt is system admin area, not something distros should touch. http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#MNTMOUNTPOINTFORATEMPORARILYMOU...
FHS might not be catering for vdr yet ;) - /media is not suitable as well - and /srv might be for the video directories, but not for the mounted partitions ?
On 21.04.2009 21:27, Ville Skyttä wrote:
So better suggestion for the distri maintainers would be to use the \mnt tree for mounting any partitions.
I disagree, /mnt is system admin area, not something distros should touch. http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#MNTMOUNTPOINTFORATEMPORARILYMOU...
There seems to be no other general mount area. /media is explicitly for removables. I personally prefer to generally mount /dev/XXX to /mnt/XXX and then bind-mount their sub-folders to where I need them.
Cheers,
Udo
-
Peter Dittmann -
Steffen Barszus -
Udo Richter -
VDR User -
Ville Skyttä