can someone point me a good sc howto?I tried to follow the one in happysat but I was unable to get it working.
[softdevice] processing args [softdevice] argv [0] = softdevice [softdevice] argv [1] = -vo [softdevice] initializing Plugin [softdevice] Initializing Video Out [softdevice] ffmpeg version(CVS) build(3276800) [XvVideoOut]: displayAspect = 1,220447, displayRatio = 1,250000, PAR = 0,976358 [XvVideoOut]: max area size 2046 x 2046 [XvVideoOut]: using area size 736 x 576 [softdevice] Subplugin successfully opend [softdevice] Video Out seems to be OK [softdevice] Initializing Audio Out [softdevice] Audio out seems to be OK [softdevice] A/V devices initialized, now initializing MPEG2 Decoder cSoftDevice::MakePrimaryDevice
root@lilith:/video# ./vdr -Psc -P"softdevice -vo xv:" [softdevice] processing args [softdevice] argv [0] = softdevice [softdevice] argv [1] = -vo [softdevice] initializing Plugin [softdevice] Initializing Video Out [softdevice] ffmpeg version(CVS) build(3276800) [XvVideoOut]: displayAspect = 1,220447, displayRatio = 1,250000, PAR = 0,976358 [XvVideoOut]: max area size 2046 x 2046 [XvVideoOut]: using area size 736 x 576 [softdevice] Subplugin successfully opend [softdevice] Video Out seems to be OK [softdevice] Initializing Audio Out [softdevice] Audio out seems to be OK [softdevice] A/V devices initialized, now initializing MPEG2 Decoder cSoftDevice::MakePrimaryDevice
plainkeys: registering key type V (super) plainkeys: registering key type Z (super) plainkeys: registering key type S (super) plainkeys: registering key type N (super) systems: registering CA system Nagra, pri -10 plainkeys: registering key type I plainkeys: registering key type X (super) plainkeys: registering key type C (super) loaders: registering loader ECM loaders: registering loader KEY vo_argv: xv: scplugin: version 0.5.1 startingnagrakey: bad key format 'N 4101 X1 03' plainkeys: loaded 22 keys from /video/plugins/SoftCam.Key softcam: ScCaps are 555 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 CMD[7258]:SetAudioMode 0 CMD[7264]:SetPlayMode PmAudioVideo CMD[7264]:Start IsSuspended 0 CMD[7264]:init put byte finished CMD[7344]:Neuer Thread gestartet: Mpeg2Decoder pid 12792 CMD[7767]:Stop CMD[7767]:Thread beendet : mpegDecoder pid 12792
When I try to see the plugins in vdr menu(plugins) it says.. 0 keys
hi,
João Mamede writes:
can someone point me a good sc howto?I tried to follow the one in happysat but I was unable to get it working.
<snip>
scplugin: version 0.5.1 startingnagrakey: bad key format 'N 4101 X1 03' plainkeys: loaded 22 keys from /video/plugins/SoftCam.Key
Get a valid subscription.
yours, Jouni
I don't know why, but I hope using sc in your homeland is illegal too. With this post you might learn that some lawyers might be interested in you from now on and you could write a nice story about your trial in this newsgroup ;)
So please keep this newsgroup clean and legal, thx.
Norbert
I don't know why, but I hope using sc in your homeland is illegal too. With this post you might learn that some lawyers might be interested in you from now on and you could write a nice story about your trial in this newsgroup ;)
So please keep this newsgroup clean and legal, thx.
Norbert
Just for curiosity. If I have only budget card can I not use sc with a cardreader? Is the use of sc itself illegal?
And to make things clear I do not use sc and I do have FF card.
- Kartsa
Hello Kartsa,
* Kartsa kari@kniivila.com [27-10-05 19:07]:
Just for curiosity. If I have only budget card can I not use sc with a cardreader? Is the use of sc itself illegal?
in Germany it is illegal, because to have the problem that you try in software to decrypt something. Only the try is forbidden by law.
Bye Matthias
Hello Kartsa,
- Kartsa kari@kniivila.com [27-10-05 19:07]:
Just for curiosity. If I have only budget card can I not use sc with a cardreader? Is the use of sc itself illegal?
in Germany it is illegal, because to have the problem that you try in software to decrypt something. Only the try is forbidden by law.
Bye Matthias
Thanks for the clarifying answer. Would be nice to know how Finnish legislation is towards this :) Again just for curiosity :D
kari@kniivila.com ("Kartsa") writes:
I don't know why, but I hope using sc in your homeland is illegal too. With this post you might learn that some lawyers might be interested in you from now on and you could write a nice story about your trial in this newsgroup ;)
So please keep this newsgroup clean and legal, thx.
Norbert
Just for curiosity. If I have only budget card can I not use sc with a cardreader? Is the use of sc itself illegal?
It would be illegal in the same manner like mp3 decoding (irdeto algorithms are covered by patents) and you might violate the contract with your provider (e.g. a big german ones allows certified receivers only). Providing vdr + vdr-sc might cause problems with youth protection law also (a big german provider sued people selling modified DBoxes on ebay because the parental PIN was not asked anymore).
But this is civil law only; when using vdr-sc with a valid subscription you will not violate DMCA like criminal law because you are not breaking any encryption. Using libdvdcss to view your paid DVDs is much more illegal than using vdr-sc...
Enrico
Matthias Fechner wrote:
Hello Kartsa,
- Kartsa kari@kniivila.com [27-10-05 19:07]:
Just for curiosity. If I have only budget card can I not use sc with a cardreader? Is the use of sc itself illegal?
in Germany it is illegal, because to have the problem that you try in software to decrypt something. Only the try is forbidden by law.
Is decrypting by software illegal in Germany ? That makes software like PGP also illegal. Also security software which decrypts your harddisk is then illegal.
Lauri Tischler wrote:
in Germany it is illegal, because to have the problem that you try in software to decrypt something. Only the try is forbidden by law.
Is decrypting by software illegal in Germany ?
No, that would be rediculous. But it is illegal to cirumvent copy protection schemes (i.e. as far as I understand it, you may not produce a copy of your favorite protected audio-cd to make it work in your car-radio :/ ).
That makes software like PGP also illegal. Also security software which decrypts your harddisk is then illegal.
Malte Schröder [MalteSch@gmx.de] wrote:
in Germany it is illegal, because to have the problem that
you try in
software to decrypt something. Only the try is forbidden by law.
Is decrypting by software illegal in Germany ?
No, that would be rediculous. But it is illegal to cirumvent copy protection schemes (i.e. as far as I understand it, you may not produce a copy of your favorite protected audio-cd to make it work in your car-radio :/ ).
I don't see what that has to do with this. I don't think this is about braking copy protection since in order to decrypt I would need keys which I get by getting a leagal subscription and thus getting a smartcard from a provider. The point here (in my original question) is that if I have a smartcard reader which happens to have USB or RS232 interface then why could I not use it together with sc instead of CAM? In both external reader and CAM I would need a subscription wouldn't I? The only difference is where the decryption is done (hw or sw), right? Ofcourse CAM is better if CPU is slower.
Or am I missing a point here? Or is it even possible to use smartcard readers other than CAM?
Enrico Scholz [enrico.scholz@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de] wrote:
I don't know why, but I hope using sc in your homeland is illegal too. With this post you might learn that some lawyers might be interested in you from now on and you could write a nice
story about
your trial in this newsgroup ;)
So please keep this newsgroup clean and legal, thx.
Norbert
Just for curiosity. If I have only budget card can I not
use sc with a
cardreader? Is the use of sc itself illegal?
It would be illegal in the same manner like mp3 decoding (irdeto algorithms are covered by patents) and you might violate the contract with your provider (e.g. a big german ones allows certified receivers only). Providing vdr + vdr-sc might cause problems with youth protection law also (a big german provider sued people selling modified DBoxes on ebay because the parental PIN was not asked anymore).
But this is civil law only; when using vdr-sc with a valid subscription you will not violate DMCA like criminal law because you are not breaking any encryption. Using libdvdcss to view your paid DVDs is much more illegal than using vdr-sc...
This slipped my eyes before my earlier post :)
Anyway it seems that my thoughts was at least on the right track. If so can this subject then be discussed in this forum without the fear of any leagal actions?
I originally asked this question because I have been planning of accuiring a smartcard reader (RS232) because it is much cheaper than CAM. But it has been a big question mark to me if it would even be possible to do so (leagally and sw point of view). And every time someone has brought this up the discussions have been silenced by argumenting that the whole thing is illegal.
And from the side of this in Finnland a new law has been approved which makes it illegal to copy CD's to MP3 and thus making it illegal to copy musik to an mp3 player even if I would have bought the CD myself. :(
- Kartsa
Kartsa wrote:
Malte Schröder [MalteSch@gmx.de] wrote:
in Germany it is illegal, because to have the problem that
you try in
software to decrypt something. Only the try is forbidden by law.
Is decrypting by software illegal in Germany ?
No, that would be rediculous. But it is illegal to cirumvent copy protection schemes (i.e. as far as I understand it, you may not produce a copy of your favorite protected audio-cd to make it work in your car-radio :/ ).
I don't see what that has to do with this. I don't think this is about braking copy protection since in order to decrypt I would need keys which I get by getting a leagal subscription and thus getting a smartcard from a provider. The point here (in my original question) is that if I have a smartcard reader which happens to have USB or RS232 interface then why could I not use it together with sc instead of CAM? In both external reader and CAM I would need a subscription wouldn't I? The only difference is where the decryption is done (hw or sw), right? Ofcourse CAM is better if CPU is slower.
Or am I missing a point here? Or is it even possible to use smartcard readers other than CAM?
The point is that crypting algorithms are patented and/or licensed and only approved devices, CAMs, should be used to decrypt the stuff. Using SC is breaking the patent/license.
Lauri Tischler wrote
Or am I missing a point here? Or is it even possible to use
smartcard
readers other than CAM?
The point is that crypting algorithms are patented and/or licensed and only approved devices, CAMs, should be used to decrypt the stuff. Using SC is breaking the patent/license.
This finally answers my original question :) Thanks.
Now this topic is clear to me also and therefore there is no need to discuss about this anymore.
- Kartsa
Lauri Tischler writes:
The point is that crypting algorithms are patented and/or licensed and only approved devices, CAMs, should be used to decrypt the stuff. Using SC is breaking the patent/license.
IANAL. My understanding is that patents do neither forbid _usage_ of patentented technology, nor manufacturing a product using a patented innovation for ones _own_ use. However, they forbid exploitation of the patented technology by e.g. selling products with patented innovations without a license.
If my interpretation is correct, there is no problem in producing a sc for ones own use, but of course if someone other than the original author of the the vdr-sc plugin is using it, the author of that plugin is violating the patent. Whether the user of the plugin is breaking any law in this case is unclear to me. Also, if the service provider has some conditions on which devices to use the leased smartcard you might be breaking them.
yours, Jouni
Kartsa wrote:
I don't think this is about braking copy protection since in order to decrypt I would need keys which I get by getting a leagal subscription and thus getting a smartcard from a provider.
I think, the parallels to DVD and CSS shed some more light here:
If you bought a DVD, you have the right to watch it in any licensed DVD player as often as you like. However, using an open source DVD player based on DeCSS to watch your DVD is illegal, because DeCSS is a non-licensed decoder for CSS, and could be used for illegal copies.
Same here: SoftCAM is an unlicensed decrypter and does not prevent card emulation and/or sharing. Because of that, it is illegal. Things would be different if the CAM protocol would be an open standard protocol that allows such usage.
Cheers,
Udo
Jouni Karvo wrote:
If my interpretation is correct, there is no problem in producing a sc for ones own use, but of course if someone other than the original author of the the vdr-sc plugin is using it, the author of that plugin is violating the patent.
in some country's even that is illegal - i.e. USA, the DMCA
Whether the user of the plugin is breaking any law in this case is unclear to me. Also, if the service provider has some conditions on which devices to use the leased smartcard you might be breaking them.
even that depends on the local law, using something that is illegal (sc) might by a offending crime that is punished by the law (state), the case of the provider against you for lost money or whatever is then second in the row
Kartsa wrote:
The point is that crypting algorithms are patented and/or licensed and only approved devices, CAMs, should be used to decrypt the stuff. Using SC is breaking the patent/license.
This finally answers my original question :) Thanks.
no, imho thats not the big problem here
Now this topic is clear to me also and therefore there is no need to discuss about this anymore.
i´m not sure about this if i were you
i´ll give you a example for german law (as i know and understand it)
by using a sc and telling on that list, it can happen that a public prosecutor visits you at home because you committed a "crime" that is prosecuted by law, the public prosecutor has to act as he gets knowledge about it in our case you violated the law about overcoming a protection mechanism, because the provider only allows the usage with the original box, witch is (for some transmissions) outputting the video signal with macrovision protection beside this the the tellings about how to do is will also be punishable, so the ML "owner" could also be prosecuted for helping to overcome a protection mechanism imho these laws base on European law, so all EU states will have them now or shortly
and if that is not enough the provider company is bound to prosecute people for modified boxes and sc because they need a working underage protection system in germany to broadcast stuff with age classification in day hours and beside this they even will have contracts with hollywood for protecting there more recent material (pay per view movies) for not getting in trouble with dvd rental or buying market - in both cases the provider has to act just to stay alive and broadcasting that is not really there interest they have to spend money without improving there core business, they are really interested to do something against people using there services without paying for it
sorry about that but i just wanted to point out why german ml and bb hosters could be a litte "picky" about this special subject
PS: there will be no improvment as long as all ignoring the new laws and hope the best - sometimes it needs more the just stare at it and shake your head
Lauri Tischler lwgt@iki.fi wrote:
The point is that crypting algorithms are patented and/or licensed and only approved devices, CAMs, should be used to decrypt the stuff. Using SC is breaking the patent/license.
there is no such thing as a (legally) patented algorithm in europe (yet).
clemens
Udo Richter udo_richter@gmx.de wrote:
I think, the parallels to DVD and CSS shed some more light here:
If you bought a DVD, you have the right to watch it in any licensed DVD player as often as you like. However, using an open source DVD player based on DeCSS to watch your DVD is illegal, because DeCSS is a non-licensed decoder for CSS, and could be used for illegal copies.
Same here: SoftCAM is an unlicensed decrypter and does not prevent card emulation and/or sharing. Because of that, it is illegal. Things would be different if the CAM protocol would be an open standard protocol that allows such usage.
this means talking about the sc plugin is equally exepted as talking about the dvd plugin here?
clemens
Clemens Kirchgatterer wrote:
there is no such thing as a (legally) patented algorithm in europe (yet).
Actually, there is. Software is currently patentable, if it is integral part of a technical invention. However, this is very widely interpretable. An user interface can be (and has been) interpreted as a method to use a monitor, making it patentable. Clarifying this in one or the other way was goal of the EU software patents fight, and since the whole thing was canceled, the status quo hasn't changed.
See: http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/de/m/politics/current.html http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/en/m/politics/current.html
Cheers,
Udo
-
Clemens Kirchgatterer -
Enrico Scholz -
Jouni Karvo -
João Mamede -
Kartsa -
Lars Bläser -
Lauri Tischler -
Malte Schröder -
Matthias Fechner -
Norbert Goebel -
Udo Richter